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Ivermectin vs. Covid and the vaccine

Marc-Antoine

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Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

DO you find it odd that the book of Genesis refers to mineral deposits in the land of Eden???
I see no point nor evidence here. Your man made fiction story doesn't mention "mineral deposits" but only onyx which is a decorative sort of quartz. Even gold isn't gold but most likely amber. That comes really short as a proof of the alien's implication in the old age of (recent) humanity and in the mining activity.
 

murphy4trees

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I see no point nor evidence here. Your man made fiction story doesn't mention "mineral deposits" but only onyx which is a decorative sort of quartz. Even gold isn't gold but most likely amber. That comes really short as a proof of the alien's implication in the old age of (recent) humanity and in the mining activity.
By itself, it is not proof, but taken with all the other multi-disciplinary evidence from ancient texts (many pre-date and source the bible) , archeology, anthropology etc, the pieces start fitting together in a way that threatens to destroy the paradigm you believe in.

I just found a course on cognitive dissonance related to vaxxines...


The topic of vaccination is often deeply divisive. Strongly held opinions are held on both side of the procedure. Why does discussing published facts about problems associated with vaccines lead to explosives confrontations? The answer is found by understanding cognitive dissonance and self-justification.

What you will learn:

  • Why cognitive dissonance occurs and how to recognize the shift in yourself
  • How most people respond when directly confronted with evidence that challenges a deeply held point of view
  • The common behaviors a person will use to dismiss information that conflicts with their currently held beliefs about vaccines
  • That same area of the brain generates an emotional response to threats, generates the feeling of cognitive dissonance
  • What functional MRI confirmed about brain function when a person experiences cognitive dissonance
  • Why self-justification is such a powerful tool for those who have no interested in changing their mind about vaccine dangers
  • The pros and cons of self-justification
  • Important responses that will break through to those who resist change by using self-justification
 

stig

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So, basically, the reason we all think you are wrong is that we all suffer from cognitive dissonance and self-justification.

Far out.

Glad we got that straightened out.
I mean, here I have been going around believing it was because we all see you for a gullible idiot, who will believe everything you find on the net.
 

Frankie

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No , the reason is that YOU have placed yourself in a limited box and that any explanation / belief other than what YOU believe is discarded; apparently without any investigation/ due diligence. It is quite apparent to all that when your rigid belief systems are challenged it elicits a barrage of insults/ad hominem attacks, this is clearly shown over and over and over again in your posts. Of course , this is not at all surprising given that you believe man evolved from apes.
 

stig

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Me and every body else, it seeme.

There are really only you and Daniel who are smart enough to see the World as it really is.
 

Frankie

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You have proven my point again. You simply CANNOT make a post without making a snide remark about the other party! Now if you do not agree with someone’s premise simply refrain from reply or state your opinions to the contrary. Constantly hurling insults,snide remarks or ad hominem attacks because YOU do not agree with what another says is : weak, causes others to lose respect for you and keeps you in a box where you will stagnate and fester ... mark my words
 

stig

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You know, for someone who has repeatedly called all of us who don't believe in your nonsense for brainwashed sheep or worse, you come across as a little über sensitive, when it goes the other way.
 

murphy4trees

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This is a translation of a statement from a Nobel Prize-winning virologist. Here is his conclusion.

Contrary to the claims of the manufacturers of messenger RNA vaccines, there is a risk of integration of viral RNA into the human genome. Indeed, each of our cells has endogenous retroviruses with the ability to reverse transcriptase RNA into DNA. Although this is a rare event, its passage through germ cell DNA and its transmission to future generations cannot be excluded. “In the face of an unpredictable future, it is better to abstain. " Professor Luc Montagnier


Google translation of France Soir Article: This letter is in support of the petition for the suspension of vaccination against covid-19 which was presented to you by Messrs. Yativ and Seligmann. I am Luc Montagnier, doctor of medicine, professor emeritus at the Institut Pasteur in Paris, director of research emeritus at CNRS, Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine for the discovery of the AIDS virus. I am an expert in virology, having devoted much of my research to RNA viruses, in particular mouse encephalomyocarditis, Rous sarcoma virus, HIV 1 and HIV 2 virus. Considerable effort has gone into vaccination against the coronavirus covid-19 responsible for a global pandemic. In particular, the State of Israel has organized a mass vaccination of its population so far, 49% of its total population has received two doses of Pfizer vaccine. I would first like to stress the novelty of this type of vaccine. In conventional vaccines, the genetic information carried by viral DNA or RNA is inactivated and virus proteins are used to induce vaccine antibodies. In some cases, the virus remains alive, but is attenuated by successive passages in vitro. In the case of so-called RNA messenger vaccines, these vaccines are made from an active fraction of the RNA of the virus that will be injected into the vaccinated person. It therefore penetrates the cells of the latter which will manufacture the vaccine proteins from the code of the injected RNA. We can immediately see that this last step depends a lot on its success on the physiological state of the recipient. I would like to summarize the potential dangers of these vaccines in a mass vaccination policy. 1. Short-term side effects: these are not the normal local reactions found for any vaccination, but serious reactions involve the life of the recipient such as anaphylactic shock linked to a component of the vaccine mixture. , or severe allergies or an autoimmune reaction up to cell aplasia. 2.lack of vaccine protection: 2.1 induction of facilitating antibodies - the induced antibodies do not neutralize a viral infection, but on the contrary facilitate it depending on the recipient. The latter may have already been exposed to the virus asymptomatically. A low level of naturally induced antibodies may compete with the antibodies induced by the vaccine. 2.2 The production of antibodies induced by vaccination in a population highly exposed to the virus will lead to the selection of variants resistant to these antibodies. These variants can be more virulent or more transmissible. This is what we are seeing now. A never-ending virus-vaccine race that will always turn to the advantage for the virus. 3. Long-term effects: Contrary to the claims of the manufacturers of messenger RNA vaccines, there is a risk of integration of viral RNA into the human genome. Indeed, each of our cells has endogenous retroviruses with the ability to reverse transcriptase RNA into DNA. Although this is a rare event, its passage through germ cell DNA and its transmission to future generations cannot be excluded. “In the face of an unpredictable future, it is better to abstain. " Professor Luc Montagnier
 

Tree09

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Thank you, that's a legit source, a written one so you can fly through it or nitpick it, and it lists numerous citations of other medical journal sources. I don't think anyone is arguing that vaccines, especially newly developed ones, are perfect in every way. Like everything in life, they need to be treated as a risk/ reward. But to claim that they are "evil," responsible for things that aren't proven, or a way for jews to implant microchips makes conversations about them pretty pointless. My wife and i both got our second shots this week, both had a small flu like reaction, and that's it. We both have medical conditions that make the risk/ reward a no brainer, and both vaccines (we had different ones because of availability) are very well researched and very very safe. We of course don't know the long term effects, but we know the risk there is also low.

Every second of our lives we are at risk of dying, and there is no activity on earth that is risk free. Sometimes when trying to fix one thing we can break another, and that's a risk that makes sense for most people. Vaccines have taken some of the world's most destructive diseases and have literally made them extinct. Our medical system contains some bad players, but that does not overrule the simple fact that modern medicine is the number one reason why our life expectancy is now limited by the fact that statistically speaking we are eating ourselves to death rather than dying left and right from diseases, and have the lowest child mortality rates since the dawn of time.

That doesn't mean that "alternative" medicine is garbage, but if it hasn't been studied in a scientific setting like actual medicine, you don't actually know shit about it. When i went in to buy some weed, the dude at the counter was trying to say that a huge 2000mg dose of thc can cure cancer (how high is too high?). I don't have proof that he's wrong, but that's some really really dumb shit. He was saying the girl in the corner cured her breast cancer that way, but since there's absolutely no proof of any of that, I'm pretty comfortable calling bullshit. While taking pills you get from tsc might be the way to go about this covid thing, I'm not seeing much legit proof, but the shot i just got has a ton of proof, which has been challenged and verified.
 

murphy4trees

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I co-founded a now-defunct organization called Citizens Alliance For Progressive Health Awareness in 1992, primarily to oppose the FDA enforcement act. I spoke publicly many times and appeared on television twice.. Once with Gary Null, and that was kind of funny because every time the moderator asked me a question I said, I think Gary would be better able to answer that question. But what I did say in every public appearance was that due to the way the system is set up there isn't a level playing field between natural remedies and prescription drugs. Only FDA-approved medicines and devices can be used to prevent or treat disease. The cost of such approval runs around 300-500 million. No one is going to spend that kind of money on any unpatentable remedy. Vitamin C or Laetrile, or DMSO, or Vit D, or even off-patent drugs such as Ivermectin. So don't expect to see much science behind natural remedies. And know that there is a propaganda machine backed by billions of dollars to keep people thinking the way you do.

Your naivete in having so much faith in the medical-industrial complex is remarkable. Are you not able to see how science has been prostituted for profits? Your facts and your logic are both lacking. First of all, medicine isn't the number one reason for increases in life expectancy. the number one reason is reducing poverty, which leads to improvement in sanitation, housing, food, and clean water. Secondly, even if modern medicine did create great benefits in the past, doesn't mean they aren't killing us with it now. Take antibiotics for example. At their introduction, they were able to cure dreaded diseases with one shot in the ass. That was a God-like function at the time. Now the overuse of antibiotics both in the food supply (used to fatten up the animals) and for every little sniffle that prompts a doctor's office visit, has led to gut dysbiosis and a resulting slew of mental and physical ailments. Are you aware that the fourth leading cause of death in the US is properly prescribed prescription drugs?
From Harvard:
Few know that systematic reviews of hospital charts found that even properly prescribed drugs (aside from misprescribing, overdosing, or self-prescribing) cause about 1.9 million hospitalizations a year. Another 840,000 hospitalized patients are given drugs that cause serious adverse reactions for a total of 2.74 million serious adverse drug reactions. About 128,000 people die from drugs prescribed to them. This makes prescription drugs a major health risk, ranking 4th with stroke as a leading cause of death. The European Commission estimates that adverse reactions from prescription drugs cause 200,000 deaths; so together, about 328,000 patients in the U.S. and Europe die from prescription drugs each year. The FDA does not acknowledge these facts and instead gathers a small fraction of the cases.
.

Then of course there is the opiod crisis that killed more than half a million people. That was clearly an effect of the deceitful marketing of big Pharma.
From the CDC:
Nearly 841,000 people have died since 1999 from a drug overdose.1 Over 70% of drug overdose deaths in 2019 involved an opioid.2 Opioids are substances that work in the nervous system of the body or in specific receptors in the brain to reduce the intensity of pain. Overdose deaths involving opioids, including prescription opioids, heroin, and synthetic opioids (like fentanyl), have increased over six times since 1999.1 Overdoses involving opioids killed nearly 50,000 people in 2019, and nearly 73% of those deaths involved synthetic opioids.2

There is all the experimentation on orphans and the mentally handicapped. There is Vioxx that killed at least 60,000, but some estimates have it as high as 500,000 over time.

Giving modern medicine a pass today because it was responsible for improvements in the 20th century is like giving Stalin a pass for killing 50 million people because he ended the brutal reign of the Czar.

If you really want to REA up on how dysfunctional the modern medical system is check out these two sources:


This paper by esteemed scientist and expert in data analysis, James Lyons Weiller lays out a thorough fact-based perspective that should give us all pause when it comes to taking any new medication or vaxxine,
International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice, and Research 1(2), December 31, 2020 Page | 188

The embedded and oft-repeated justification of “the greater good” actually begs the question of utility of vaccines in the prevention and control of disease in the population because, while transmission may be controlled by some vaccines and symptoms merely reduced by others, the true cost of vaccine adverse events is unknowable: to bring forward evidence of vaccine injury might reduce vaccine uptake, threatening the utility of the vaccine in the first place, and the profits of the manufacturers and their now fully captured regulatory partners. Thus, the net balance of risk is never experimentally tested or demonstrated but is merely presumed to fall in favor of population-wide vaccination. With any ACIP-approved vaccine, the possibility of generating any information to the contrary is stymied at every turn — including meaningful postmarket “surveillance”. These measures include the use of vaccines or adjuvants as “placebos” during clinical trials. Where the researchers involved in clinical trials of vaccines ought to be using inert saline as a comparison treatment, as shown by the team at ICAN.org (2020) in their report leading to what was called “Placebogate” — the vaccine promoters rely on misleading statements by physicians and the bullying of parents into accepting all the vaccines and “mandates”.

and this book by a man who deserves the Nobel prize for showing that mammograms don't save lives.

and lastly, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about Jews implanting microchips. Evil .. yes I don;t know what else to call a system that puts profits over human life, experimenting on orphans and the mentally handicapped and the poor in India etc.
 
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stig

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"You are aware that the fourth leading cause of death in the US is properly prescribed prescription drugs."

And all those drugs were of course given to completely healthy people, against their will.

Honestly, if the chemo that I get for my leukemia kills me, what the frig does it matter?
Untreated, the leukemia would have done so anyway.
 

murphy4trees

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Another Stigism...
Vioxx was prescribed for headaches.. killed at least 60,000 people, with some estimates as high as 500,000.

What if it was a medicine that caused your leukemia in the first place?
I haven't taken a prescription drug other than doxy for Lyme for over 30 years.
I'm not afraid of Covid or the flu and there is no way I would ever take a vaxxine. NFW
 

stig

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Daniel, you have told me over and over that my leukemia came about as a direct result of me repeatedly saying you can't use a saw for shit.
Karma and all that bull.

Now, because that fits your story better, it was suddenly brought about by medicine.

It is kinda hard to take you seriously.
 

kevin bingham

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Another Stigism...
Vioxx was prescribed for headaches.. killed at least 60,000 people, with some estimates as high as 500,000.

What if it was a medicine that caused your leukemia in the first place?
I haven't taken a prescription drug other than doxy for Lyme for over 30 years.
I'm not afraid of Covid or the flu and there is no way I would ever take a vaxxine. NFW
but scared enough to experiment with ingesting horse dewormer.
 

Frankie

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I’m in agreement with Daniel that the entire pharmaceutical industry places profits over people and this is not an opinion, it is readily available fact should one want to do some digging / reading. It appears that “only this vaccine” can treat covid , and that no other option exists despite mounting evidence to the contrary; proof of alternative natural treatments are being suppressed and censored 🤬. You just have to stand back in awe at how hard this vaccine is being pushed on the population, one could say the population is being blackmailed as covid passports and covid passes proving one has taken the vaccine are being required to go about ones business despite the fact the vaccines do not prevent you from acquiring the virus nor do they prevent you from spreading the virus. Now we see new strains of the virus emerging corresponding precisely with greater vaccine distribution. Is it cause and effect or just random chance? - we shall see very soon. Not interested in taking one personally. It should alarm everyone that we are headed towards a society where you will have to offer unlimited access to your veins/body in exchange for “permission” to lead a normal life : think about it ! Short story on how a faked illness saved a village : How a Fake Typhus Epidemic Saved a Polish City From the Nazis - Atlas Obscura - https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-a-fake-typhus-epidemic-saved-a-polish-city-from-the-nazis.amp
 
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murphy4trees

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Daniel, you have told me over and over that my leukemia came about as a direct result of me repeatedly saying you can't use a saw for shit.
Karma and all that bull.

Now, because that fits your story better, it was suddenly brought about by medicine.

It is kinda hard to take you seriously.
Once again Stig you misquote me. I said there is a chance the lukemia was caused by a tainted polio vaxxine from '58-'63. While falling down the steps and breaking your foot is a function of your karma for all the nastiness you put out in the world. You're dealing with it, but don't seem to be learning much from it.
 

Tree09

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Your naivete in having so much faith in the medical-industrial complex is remarkable. Are you not able to see how science has been prostituted for profits? Your facts and your logic are both lacking.
I'm would consider myself very far from naive about modern medicine, as you know my recent struggle with aggressive lymphoma has been quite the education. I should be dead, and if i was born in a less fortunate location or time period i would be. You will be happy to know i just received results from my last biopsy that show that, for now and to the best of our knowledge, that I'm in remission. That doesn't mean I'm out of the woods by any means, but it's definitely very good news. I'm very confused at you being against basic cancer screening including mammograms, which have saved 2 of my aunts so far. While it obviously doesn't save everyone, they are getting better every day.

Some of the newer developments in the last few years are absolutely incredible, from newer chemo regimens, immunotherapy, genetically modified viruses and cells, really too many to list and are coming out faster and faster. While most will likely take only baby steps towards the goal, sometimes you develop something like rituxan, which overnight completely changed the mortality of many blood cancers. Yes they still use mustard gas derived chemo agents and others with horrific side effects, but due to experimentation have proven their continued prominence as the best we have for now. Many have died over time in this death march called progress, some testing stuff we take for granted now such as c sections which was medically necessary for my son. It's very unfortunate, but there is no other way. If my time comes and I'm eligible for a clinical trial, i will gladly contribute for the chance of living longer. Some may have the option of waiting for this testing to be done by others, some do not.

I get that @stig and you aren't "buddies" but bringing his very unfortunate diagnosis of leukemia into any debate is pretty much bullshit. There are certain lines you just should not cross, and that is completely one of them. Even if it was caused by a polio vaccine, he was a child when it happened so didn't have a say in the matter, and he didn't have to endure an iron lung and paralysis that comes with polio. The decision was made using the best information at the time, and although some were casualties, it was for the best. I'm absolutely certain he will agree with this. Being a casualty of something that is supposed to make you healthier is terrible, but unfortunately nothing we do is completely safe, and is usually a risk one is willing to take.

I am curious what originally led to your seemingly lifelong crusade against modern medicine. I completely agree that parts of it are severely contaminated by corrupt capitalism, which is much more of a damnation of a for profit medical system than the medicine itself. You are clearly very passionate about this, I'm just curious why. It just seems very random to a bystander. Did you complete medical school or something? Any college in medicine? Work as a nurse or even an cnr or emt?

You mention fentenal and other prescription opiods as the prime example of drugs that cause nothing but harm, completely ignoring how incredibly useful and wonderful they are in a supervised medical setting. I've personally been given fentenal almost a dozen times, mostly during ir surgeries. It's not fun, but combined with a sedative and local anesthesia, they can do a surprising amount of cutting while not requiring a patient to be intubated, greatly reducing risks and making certain surgeries a cheaper, safer experience. During my biopsy a few weeks ago i was able to communicate with the surgeon pain i was experiencing, which lead him to conclude he was stabbing a bundle of nerves, so he repositioned the needle to miss them. The ability to do that real time is incredible.

I truly hope you never need to use prescription opiods, but if you need them, you will be very grateful they exist. When i was in very very very severe pain at the beginning of my treatment, without them i would have attempted to kill myself repeatedly by any means available, even tho i was partially paralyzed from my immune system going haywire. I'm talking tying something around my neck i want this to stop pain, swallowing stuff to choke, cutting or stabbing, anything. Instead i was telling jokes and making everyone who came to help me smile and have a better day. If you have never experienced that kind of pain you frankly have no business even commenting on it, or the drugs that make that as tolerable as possible.


But what I did say in every public appearance was that due to the way the system is set up there isn't a level playing field between natural remedies and prescription drugs. Only FDA-approved medicines and devices can be used to prevent or treat disease. The cost of such approval runs around 300-500 million. No one is going to spend that kind of money on any unpatentable remedy. Vitamin C or Laetrile, or DMSO, or Vit D, or even off-patent drugs such as Ivermectin. So don't expect to see much science behind natural remedies.
Did it ever occur to you that only stuff that's actually reviewed for safety and efficacy should be sold to people? That's honestly a no brainer, we expect the same for the equipment we use for cutting trees. If the approval process is too strict that's a debate we could have, but despite those costs we still have mistakes, so which is it? Finally, i actually have a prescription for vitamin D, and they are using it to treat indolent lymphoma in between relapses (indolent lymphoma is slow but mostly terminal for now), in a modern medicine setting. Yup, vitamin D is currently being used to treat types of blood cancers, which are very very expensive to treat using other stuff. It obviously isn't the same as cancer drugs, but they have noted it's effectiveness so it's actually prescribed.
 

kevin bingham

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That's because I did my homework on Ivermectin, a Nobel Prize-winning drug that has a 40-year history of gold star safety record. AND my best friend from HS who is an awesome MD told me to!
it just seems like an extreme reaction to the situation.
 

murphy4trees

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it just seems like an extreme reaction to the situation.
Kevin, I backed off after a couple of months because I read that it might cause a drop in testosterone and felt my love life might have been suffering. I still keep Ivermectin on hand at all times, and should I notice any symptoms I will get right on it.
I don't get how you judge it as extreme, as I was told to do it by a medical doctor and it has a great record of safety since it was approved in 1981. That's 40 years. Also, there are a number of people using it to treat cancer and there is some thought in the alternative health community that parasites often go undiagnosed as an underlying cause of other medical conditions, which I had heard since the 80s, and was more recently confirmed by the work of Dr Simon Yu.

IMO it's crazy to think that taking an experimental vaxxine using a new technology that has never before passed the animal safety phase trials, and is being produced by a convicted serial killing company that has paid billions of dollars in fines for its past criminal behavior is a better option, especially with NO LONG TERM STUDIES and NO LIABILITY ON THE MANUFACTURER
 
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