woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Yes, I try to forget my barber chair experience and fifteen pages keep reminding me.
intentional barber chair
- Thread starter murphy4trees
- Start date
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hahahahahahaaaa!
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
Planning the perfect compensation pull and cripple cut is just another aspect of the game Daniel. A tree with no hinge at all can be given a hinge by virtue of well-placed compensation. Most veterans will have quite a grasp of this, yes, even logger's, LOL. Loggers pull off incredible compensation fells with stiff-arm swing lines. Calibration to beat all. I think it's good that you like pulling so much. It definitely has a place, an intriguing place. It's just not a 90% place for me. It's a tool in the tool kit. I get my greatest tree falling thrill's with important targets to miss and no help from pull ropes though.
It's just me and the tree. It's pure. I'm a hopeless romantic with roots in logging ...and in arb work. That said, I will do what it takes though. Just like the rest of us I imagine.
aug
It's just me and the tree. It's pure. I'm a hopeless romantic with roots in logging ...and in arb work. That said, I will do what it takes though. Just like the rest of us I imagine.
aug
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #156
I get it, the purity and tradition of one man, his saw, ax (hammer) and wedges....
you can call me lazy, call the skid loader a crutch, call the open face a wussie notch., and you wouldn't be that far off... pounding wedges can make you break a sweat and suck air.... a wave of the hand is soo much easier for a fat ol man...
However I drop trees on a fairly regular basis that 99+% of the arbs in my area wouldn't even consider... There is a beauty to that.. Having the confidence in your skill and the coordination with and trust in your machine op, to do something that no one else would do.... that's my tasty cheese.... I know that sounds conceited and full of myself and that a lack of humility just pisses most tree guys off (guess what guys.... that's because you're conceited and full of yourselves too, only you don't admit it!!!!) BUT IT"S TRUE! ANd in this full of shit world I AM OK with the truth, even if its best kept to myself!
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
Ya I understand. It was my logging experience that had me using all the space in the backyard with three-cut-drops, or down the driveway across the cul-de-sac and up the neighbors driveway, (in my late 20s) in Seattle. Most of the tree service guys/climbers for the companies I work for have been heavy on the chunking and light on the falling which has helped me stand out often. I don't think it would help me stand out in this group much though. The part that is probably eliciting comments from me is the theology of putting a rope in everything. It sounds much like never one-handing. Over-standardization annoys me.
I know you can fall trees in the spot.
aug
I know you can fall trees in the spot.
aug
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #159
not around here they didn't... I've been grinding stumps and get to see a lot of ugly notches and back cuts... rarely see good hinge fiber
Absolutely. But they get it done.
I once watched a crew from a large, well equipped land clearing company fall this one particular tree on a residential job. Twas a large sugar maple 24"x 80', it definitely threatened the nearby house. They messed around with the box and back cut for like 10 minutes. I definitely thought I was going to see a house get squashed. They tried pushing it with the JD 540 but the hinge and weight was too much. Eventually they were able to push it over after much more f'g around. I checked out the stump later after work, damn I wish I had a camera then- you know how generally speaking the front of the hinge is supposed to point perpendicularly to the direction of fall? Well this hinge was shaped like an arrow on a traffic sign, with the point of it pointing to the lay. I have absolutely no idea how it was able to fall where they wanted it, but you know what? They got it done, with zero input from Paul Bunyan here.
That's what the inter webs teaches, especially with regard to treework- there are so many different ways to skin a cat, some guys will do things exactly ass backwards from the way we would do it, but they get it done and move on to the next one.
I once watched a crew from a large, well equipped land clearing company fall this one particular tree on a residential job. Twas a large sugar maple 24"x 80', it definitely threatened the nearby house. They messed around with the box and back cut for like 10 minutes. I definitely thought I was going to see a house get squashed. They tried pushing it with the JD 540 but the hinge and weight was too much. Eventually they were able to push it over after much more f'g around. I checked out the stump later after work, damn I wish I had a camera then- you know how generally speaking the front of the hinge is supposed to point perpendicularly to the direction of fall? Well this hinge was shaped like an arrow on a traffic sign, with the point of it pointing to the lay. I have absolutely no idea how it was able to fall where they wanted it, but you know what? They got it done, with zero input from Paul Bunyan here.
That's what the inter webs teaches, especially with regard to treework- there are so many different ways to skin a cat, some guys will do things exactly ass backwards from the way we would do it, but they get it done and move on to the next one.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
That type in of cut is now taught in the uk.
I did something me refresher training last year as an obligation to a certain contract. They showed us it but only on skinny heavy head learners which are too narrow to do a bore and release of dogs tooth as they call it over here. Seems to work and the tree falls slowly. You didn't even need to remove the wedge, just two diagonal cut with the intersection pointing towards the direction of fall.
I did something me refresher training last year as an obligation to a certain contract. They showed us it but only on skinny heavy head learners which are too narrow to do a bore and release of dogs tooth as they call it over here. Seems to work and the tree falls slowly. You didn't even need to remove the wedge, just two diagonal cut with the intersection pointing towards the direction of fall.
SkwerI
Treehouser
Wow, interesting! I have never heard of or even considered anything like this. Can't wait to try it out.
On heavy head leaners I usually end up doing a modified Coos Bay. I sort of do it all in one cut. I start with a vertical cut on the far side of the lead, then pull the saw around over the top to a vertical cut on the near side, then bring the tip down to finish the cut.
On heavy head leaners I usually end up doing a modified Coos Bay. I sort of do it all in one cut. I start with a vertical cut on the far side of the lead, then pull the saw around over the top to a vertical cut on the near side, then bring the tip down to finish the cut.
Mick!
TreeHouser
You got a link to this sort of cut Rich?
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
Seen that cut on heavy learners taught in an ooooollllld feller handbook. Three cuts, point of triangle is toward lay, back cut last of course
aug
aug
Interesting. Sounds like a cousin of the Coos Bay cut. But the tree and monkeys I referenced weren't doing this cut, the tree was fair or back leaning, not head leaning. The stump looked like a war had been fought on it with all the slashing, hacking, and cutting that had been done on it.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
Oh ya Cory that ones called the crudes bay.
aug
aug
Cory, it is used a lot here.
We refer to it as the "Golden triangle cut"
If you do a search of the forum, I have probably written about it some time.
Believe I made a drawing, too.
Might have been among the things that got lost apart with a large part of the forum, though.
We refer to it as the "Golden triangle cut"
If you do a search of the forum, I have probably written about it some time.
Believe I made a drawing, too.
Might have been among the things that got lost apart with a large part of the forum, though.
Hey that was good.
T'was a long time ago.
I just searched, and it isn't here any more.
We use it a lot in storm clean-up, on those trees that are not downed but pushed over to an extreme lean.
Like the Coos bay, it works well for the two things it has to do.
Save the faller and save the log.
Don't expect much direction from it, though.
In storm clean up precision hardly matters anyway, since everything is a mess anyway.
If you want precision and the tree is too small for a bore and release, try making your bore cut slanted.
Like semi vertical instead of horizontal.
Lots more room that way.
I just searched, and it isn't here any more.
We use it a lot in storm clean-up, on those trees that are not downed but pushed over to an extreme lean.
Like the Coos bay, it works well for the two things it has to do.
Save the faller and save the log.
Don't expect much direction from it, though.
In storm clean up precision hardly matters anyway, since everything is a mess anyway.
If you want precision and the tree is too small for a bore and release, try making your bore cut slanted.
Like semi vertical instead of horizontal.
Lots more room that way.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
Mick, I had never seen of it before and it essentially is a version of a cut I have used for years. My version is just an undercut like Brian (I think ) mentioned. At an angle on the compression side de first then the side closest to you the. Form the triangle from the top. Fast. It just pops off.
They called this the V cut. I googled and this came up.
http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/attachments/training-education/83761d1325856620-vee-cut-husq-v-cut.pdf
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #173
Hey.. can we get back to BBC !!!!!
Just kidding... glad to see the conversation meandering along its merry way!
Just kidding... glad to see the conversation meandering along its merry way!
You said you make cuts that 99% of arbs can't make which led us to cuts that folks make that get the job done despite possibly not using your bag of tricks. The innernet reveals that guys the world over get similar types of jobs done every day using whatever techniques they have, and that techniques which are only possessed by 1% of arbs likely don't exist.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #175
Certainly didn;t mean to imply that I can take trees down that 99% of arbs can't... If such a tree exists I haven't seen it.. what I meant was that I will notch and drop a tree that would have otherwise been climbed and roped out, or crane removal etc...
And I wouldn't generalize about the whole industry.. Regional differences are huge.. I never met an arb around here who told me his father was a logger... West coast falling skills seem so much more universal, but it got passed down from father to son and crew leader to apprentice etc.. Esadt coast, at least around here is a phenomenon of cluelessness about falling technique. Maybe that will change with the internet, but I have met a bunch of highly skilled climbers around here that simply do not know the basics of a clean notch and back cut... One of my buddies showed up with 12 years experience, had worked for some of the best companies around here, and didn;t know not to bypass his face cuts... I showed up to check on a job, took one look at the stump and know my guys didn't make that cut.. wouldn't have happened....
