Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #26
I’ve seen AH do that cut before. It’s not a true coos bay imho due to the fact that he does an undercut. It seems to have the same results?
Barber chairing- stay on the stump?!
- Thread starter Treeaddict
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The limb it like it looked like AH was dealing with in the vid, and limbs I had in mind from past experience, are totally unpushable, they are far too heavy to push and they are gone from the cut too quickly.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
To be more clear, the undercut kerf is Not lined up with the Coos Bay style cut. I put it inward.
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #29
That makes a lot of sense. You’re doing a similar thing to sap/side cuts when dropping vertical pieces. That’s smart.
Eric H-L
Treehouser
I hope Gerry might offer his opinion. If I read his book correctly, the heavy limb cut with the undercut or small face he calls, “improved jump cut.” I don’t think he called it a coos bay. I sometimes have lumped the two together in my mind incorrectly.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Hardwoods don't allow the same good positioning relative to the butt of the cut as conifers commonly can.
The limb it like it looked like AH was dealing with in the vid, and limbs I had in mind from past experience, are totally unpushable, they are far too heavy to push and they are gone from the cut too quickly.
Sometimes, a couple feet is all you need.
A groundie with a rope may be able to pull it away from an obstacle. That will add a downward vector to the limb.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
The coosbay cut is intended to get a rotation in hightly tensionned wood, while the standard technigue to get a hinge in this case makes the wood to dislocate before the completion of the cut. With the heavy limb, August wanted to land it flat due to the fence near the tree's foot. A rotation here would make it lands tip first and the butt would crash on the fence. A hinge or a tear on the side give nearly the same result (probably even more swing with the tear). So this looks like a snap cut with two ear cuts. The closing of the kerf underside allows some rotation though, not much, but more importantly, it reports all the compression on the already cut fibers of the bottom. Mostly all the rest of the section becomes in tension, no neutral fibers are left to give a rotation. This makes the butt just pops off when the high load overhelms the fiber's strength.
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gf beranek
Old Schooler
The Coo's Bay cut, as originally described to me by Mike Davis in 1989, over beers in the Golden West Saloon in Ft. Bragg, California, left me in pure wonder of the method, and even a bit skeptical of it. I fully admit.
In later years, however, what Mike described to me, and what I eventually began applying in practice completely changed my understanding of the tension and pressure forces that work on the stems of a tree. Be it a limb, a spar, a top or the whole tree.
They're all just big and bigger bundles of long wood fibers. It's all about wood fiber and understanding how the forces of tension and pressure work on the stems of a tree. Whether those forces come by wind, gravity or other outside forces.
Today it appears to me the original description of the Coo's Bay cut has transcended into all different kinds of variations. Many of which have lost or confused the meaning and purpose of the cut (method)
The bottom line is, of course, to get your cuts to part clean without splitting, tearing and barber-chairing.
Unless, of course that is specifically what you want. And in that case anything goes.
God be with you.
In later years, however, what Mike described to me, and what I eventually began applying in practice completely changed my understanding of the tension and pressure forces that work on the stems of a tree. Be it a limb, a spar, a top or the whole tree.
They're all just big and bigger bundles of long wood fibers. It's all about wood fiber and understanding how the forces of tension and pressure work on the stems of a tree. Whether those forces come by wind, gravity or other outside forces.
Today it appears to me the original description of the Coo's Bay cut has transcended into all different kinds of variations. Many of which have lost or confused the meaning and purpose of the cut (method)
The bottom line is, of course, to get your cuts to part clean without splitting, tearing and barber-chairing.
Unless, of course that is specifically what you want. And in that case anything goes.
God be with you.
Burnham
Woods walker
For those who may not have read this thread...good stuff regarding the Coos Bay cut here. And the whole story from Gerry as to how he came to use it 
. Way back in 2008, this was. Ain't that something?
Beranek's Coos Bay felling cut vs. Burnham's | The Tree House (masterblasterhome.com)
. Way back in 2008, this was. Ain't that something?Beranek's Coos Bay felling cut vs. Burnham's | The Tree House (masterblasterhome.com)
*raises hand*I get that all the time
You ever get a BC so bad, so huge, so high that it's a real problem to get it down because it is a giant booby trap, even with a skidder? Sorry to say I have. Managed to live thu it. Probably before I knew of bore cuts.
does pulling so hard you have to double up your 3/4" line with 25K MBS count? 40ft running start with a 25 thousand pound bucket truck and the tree stopped me right as the rope stretch overcame the tree, and we had cut a face cut and back cut into the "stump" left by the BC to have the whole thing fall towards me
Burnham
Woods walker
Little wonder that one chaired on you. Face was way too shallow, I think.
Hindsight/after-action review is always easier for making criticisms.
Hindsight/after-action review is always easier for making criticisms
.yeah, I would have gone almost twice as deep but I wasnt the one cutting, fairly sure I said something about it too but its been a whileLittle wonder that one chaired on you. Face was way too shallow, I think.
Hindsight/after-action review is always easier for making criticisms
also I was pulling like it had back lean, and no idea how hard to pull since it was my first time pulling something with this truck, turns out it didnt need a rope at all (although it technically did to satisfy Z133 as there were 2 buildings within striking distance)
im impressed with my pintle hitch tho, rated for like 16K and I put somewhere between 40 and 50K on it in a sort of "shock load" and its just fine, with all of 3 out of 4 bolts in (hitch is just to move the chipper normally, 3 bolts is plenty and I didnt feel like hand drilling another hole in 5/8" plate)
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Burnham
Woods walker
Shallow face and pulling as well, with that lean? What was the thinking for that technique?
Maybe a lot of limb weight counter to the lean?
Maybe a lot of limb weight counter to the lean?
the thinking wasnt really there TBH
was day 3 of a 1 day job, I had one plan, everyone else keeps throwing in ideas that are distractions, among other things
from the looks of it I thought it had lots of back weight to it but it didnt, and this was the outcome, I wanted a shallow notch for wedge power but not THAT shallow I guess, seeing it now no way I would let the sawyer even touch the back cut till that notch was 4-6" deeper
oh well, got it down, nobody hurt atleast
to add, im used to using an electric winch or skidsteer to pull trees, you can hear the winch strain, and feel the skidsteer loading up as you pull, in the bucket I probably had 10K on it before I even felt it get tight
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Green, strong trees stand up very well on wedges, then can be pulled over with lighter force when you have the hinge cut as desired, without the increased risk of BC-ing.
Seems people like to get a Lot of pre-load, even though the tree won't be sitting back and somehow losing ground.
Using a plumb-bob (e.g. throw line and weight, a stick/ any weight on an ear plug string, etc) can help to visually dissect the weight of the tree.
I preloaded a tree the other day because it was dead and had sapwood rot between two building. It was neutral in lean. Some decent preload on 1/2" husky double-braid (stretchy), but not a lot. When I set the wedges in the back-cut, the top of the tree was moving a bit. Then, I pulled it over with a bit of momentum from the truck. Hinge worked just as it should have, after I set it up just as I wanted.
Seems people like to get a Lot of pre-load, even though the tree won't be sitting back and somehow losing ground.
Using a plumb-bob (e.g. throw line and weight, a stick/ any weight on an ear plug string, etc) can help to visually dissect the weight of the tree.
I preloaded a tree the other day because it was dead and had sapwood rot between two building. It was neutral in lean. Some decent preload on 1/2" husky double-braid (stretchy), but not a lot. When I set the wedges in the back-cut, the top of the tree was moving a bit. Then, I pulled it over with a bit of momentum from the truck. Hinge worked just as it should have, after I set it up just as I wanted.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
The tree is most stable when supported on wedges. If it opens the back-cut before you're ready, you might run into problems from wind rocking the tree back. I aim for methods that work every time, unless I have a specific reason to do otherwise.
Would you explain your rationale for preloading it?
YMMV.
$.02
Would you explain your rationale for preloading it?
YMMV.
$.02
Burnham
Woods walker
I also am a big fan of an electric winch for pulling trees to overcome back lean or back weighted limbs. I agree with your assessment on the difficulty of gauging load with a large vehicle as power source...never a preferred choice for me.
Do you use wedges as a regular thing, or are you like many arbs, rather inexperienced with what they can be used to accomplish?
If the latter, you'd be well served by learning more, imo.
Do you use wedges as a regular thing, or are you like many arbs, rather inexperienced with what they can be used to accomplish?
If the latter, you'd be well served by learning more, imo.
we use wedges on almost every tree as a rule, this time I thought id get away with it
there was a TON wrong that day, almost every tree I follow the saw with wedges and pull a bit on the top
pre load takes up any stretch in the line, and bend in the tree that may occur if something "sits back" and also tests the tie in and rigging
generally tho, the wedges are a backup for me, incase a line snaps, truck slides, limb breaks, wind ETC, I dont use them to push a tree over unless I cant really get a rope on it
there was a TON wrong that day, almost every tree I follow the saw with wedges and pull a bit on the top
pre load takes up any stretch in the line, and bend in the tree that may occur if something "sits back" and also tests the tie in and rigging
generally tho, the wedges are a backup for me, incase a line snaps, truck slides, limb breaks, wind ETC, I dont use them to push a tree over unless I cant really get a rope on it
I got a real good idea what they can do, mainly for me its a backup and keeping a kerf open
not sense in killing myself swinging an axe to pound wedges when a few clicks on the maasdam, pull with the truck or winch, or any other line in the top will do it normally perfectly fine
to be fair in this case I "thought" I was pulling stretch and slack out, turns out it was the tree moving instead, hard to tell when you are in the truck driving and watching everything
a stupid moment for sure
SeanKroll
Treehouser
As an idea, you can set your phone up to video the tensioning, using a small limb stuck in the ground, in frame, as a reference point. It won't help you if you are having to drive and judge the pre-load while pre-loading, but you can look at accurate information after tensioning, and back-off the pressure, if desired.
Burnham
Woods walker
We'll happily agree to disagree, I'm sure .
But before one can click that maasdam, or pull with the truck or winch, one must place the top line. In my world, I can do a lot of wedging much faster and easier than doing that and setting up the rest. Swinging the axe is no work at all, usually. I actually get a great deal of pleasure out of moving a large tree with my wedges and axe.
. But before one can click that maasdam, or pull with the truck or winch, one must place the top line. In my world, I can do a lot of wedging much faster and easier than doing that and setting up the rest. Swinging the axe is no work at all, usually. I actually get a great deal of pleasure out of moving a large tree with my wedges and axe.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Talking tall. Did you ever meet you match?
