I have a confession to make...

[squisher]

It's definetly not a bad thing. And unless someone is going to learn some basics otherwise. Atleast it forces them to learn something to achieve the cert. if you don't know some basics you won't pass. But a real arborist is going to learn above and beyond what it takes to pass their test.

And then ability in the field is a whole other thing unto itself. It has very little to do with being isa certd or not IMO.

But also know your market and what benefits it can give you. In my locale it also benefitted me in giving me some clout with customers, it's recognized by the consumer here being isa certd I found. So it made it an easy conversation when invariably I'd get asked if I was a certified arborist.

 

[Altissimus]

Though I do think the year or two I was a NAA member I did learn alot. More on the biZness end

 

[sotc]

Noone is certed, I gotta blow this popsicle stand!

 

[squisher]

Ahhh. I knew you'd be around flaunting your bcma.

 

[RegC]

I have a certificate in Arboriculture, and numerous other chainsaw and climbing certification....but only because my hand was forced at the time, for insurance reasons. Not involved with the ISA, and hope the day never comes thay they get to take any money from me. Many of the weakest and worst tree workers I've seen are ISA certified.

My only concern is that some of our municipalities in the region, as well as a couple of the big companies are pushing that the bylaws insist on ISA certification to operate in certain areas. People always trying to squeeze you.

 

[cory]

yes it was a gruelling hour of testing and many hundreds of dollars, but yes I am certd. Lol.
.

To keep the arb license in CT, you have to go to a tree meeting once a year where you drink beer, eat expensive but cheap pasta, chicken and roast beef and look at tree gear for sale. Going in the back room and listening to a tree egg head talk about not much is optional.

People always trying to squeeze you.

Oh hell yes.

 

[treebilly]

I'm not ISA either but will probably be soon. More and more municipalities are requiring it to bid for them around me. A benifit to being ISA certified if you ever have to become an employee is usually a couple bucks an hour. The downfall is knowing that the person in charge of the garden section of Lowes is a CA as well. I guess my biggest issue is that the handful of ones I know in my area, don Spurs more than I do and I'm a removal guy

 

[Jomo]

My WCISA certs died about twenty years ago, along with John Britton.....

http://www.thebrittonfund.org/our-roots/

Jomo

 

[NickfromWI]

Welcome to the club!

Get money now. Get certified later.

 

[pantheraba]

That could be a T-shirt.

 

[FireFighterZero]

What was Stig fighting with last year?

I thought that had something to do with certification.

 

[Raj]

Something with an old or a non CE saddle and/or rope.

 

[FireFighterZero]

It seems like he HAD to be certified, and was going to beat up his test facilitator.

 

[sotc]

. Many of the weakest and worst tree workers I've seen are ISA certified.
.

I'm gutted, throwing my papers away now!

 

[squisher]

Yah. In my experience I met many lousy tree workers who weren't certified and knew nothing about trees. The very best treeworkers I ever met in my area were all isa certd fwiw. But heh, I've never met Reg.

I'm never one to rail against 'the system' much. Rather than being 'squeezed' I just took the test and paid a bit of money. I probably have less invested in the isa then any one of my larger saws.

 

[RegC]

It's true Willie. Many of them used to hire me for jobs they took on, but couldn't do themselves....pruning and removals. I have nothing against CArborists....until they start inflating it's signicance as a bigger achievement than what it actually is.

 

[squisher]

Just saying in comparison to what it cost me it got me things like a three year school district contract twice. Where I'd spend days just updating inventory, prescribing care, and then spend weeks doing all the work. It got me big contracts(for around here) with local municipalities. Thise are just a couple direct things, it also benefited indirectly in many ways.

 

[squisher]

I hear yah Reg. I only ever touted it as proof of a very basic base of knowledge about trees.

And come to think of it one of the top guys in the area here now isn't certd I think. He's from Cali and a really nice guy, super capable climber and arborist.

 

[RegC]

I'm putting off the inevitable, probably, Justin. I've managed well enough for 28 years though. I like being a member here, but in general I've never been comfortable at the thought of being part of a group or organization that gets led this way and that. Much prefer to be a loner and make up my own mind.

 

[sotc]

I'm kidding around but I have seen both ways. Most guys around here get it for the contacts, not the knowledge. I remember getting my cert and thinking "I still don't feel like I know anything". Imo it's a foundation to build off of. I'm getting close to renewing BCMA for the second time and I know cert arbs in other areas that know waaay more than I do. In my area I think I'm at the top of the chain, yet, I still feel like I know nothing but the basics. Doctors have it easy, 1 species, we have hundreds in our area, how can you be an authority?! I still say "I don't know" almost daily to clients. Anyway, BCMA solidifies my qualification in other people's minds and that translates to money in the bank. Bottom line

 

[TreeMuggs]

It's not the cert that annoys me, as much as the fact that it expires every 3 years. Am I really supposed to believe that arboriculture changes so much every 3 years that the knowledge I currently have will be outdated soon? Or is it just a brilliant business model? If I had stayed in university and finished my degree, would that expire every so often unless I paid a bunch of money to the school?

The ISA CA program has only been around since 1992. Before that, the ISA was mostly an academic group, researching and promoting proper tree care. I'm not anti-ISA, but with the certification program that they started, in my opinion, they overstepped their bounds. Getting my Ontario certification was so much more difficult than getting my ISA, but I know, especially in the US, most states don't have a certification. And this power vacuum is why the CA program has been so popular.

The certification has been packaged up and productized to the point that it is now virtually meaningless. Anyone can get it if you pay the money. If you want to get your ISA, you can get your ISA. But yes, it is a public perception thing. Even though certification is voluntary, we feel like we need to have it - we don't know what else to do.

The bottom line in my mind is that your value, your social capital, is based on your output, not the letters after your name...

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yea, it should be more like 10 years or so. Stuff WILL change, but not all that much.

3 is too soon.

 

[sotc]

I love the CEU program, forces you to learn more. It's not so much about forgetting what you know even just finding out the latest research imo, it's more about building on the foundation that the cert gave you. A foundation is nessasary to build a solid building on but no one builds a foundation without intending to build something useful on it. To each his own.

 

[squisher]

I too found the ceu requirement useful to force you to learn something ongoing. I don't think it's such a bad model of ensuring certd individuals stay up on their knowledge. Some people are good crammers, like me. The test was easy peasy. I'd forgotten a lot of what I had learned to pass the test in the first three years I bet. It's easy enough to view it as a cash grab, but it's a writeoff and really not much IMO relative to the scale of full time treework. If the work isn't full time and you still want to be certd I could see the value argument based on dollars and cents.

It is more the conforming and paying up to an 'overseer' that can bother some I think. For me it didn't, being 'certd' in whatever you're doing is always a good idea IMO. I brushed off getting my faller/bucker cert when it was a weekend course up here when it first started to grandfather guys in. It would've been free for me to attend but I chose to blow it off at the time. Stupid. Since then I've always found out what sort of certification is involved with whatever I'm doing and strive for it.

 

[JD3000]

I agree with most points about the $$$ and the CA cert having been dumbed down. I need 60 CEU in the 3 year cycle but have most of them done in a year.

If the some in the public public believe CA to be a quality of knowledge benchmark, should BCMA and RCA be held in very high esteem??? It doesnt seem to be the case because most folks dont know that these more advanced certs exist. Will I renew my BCMA, probably but it hasnt opened as many doors as I had thought