How to make Perfectly Horizontal Undercuts and Backcuts?

[murphy4trees]

There isn't much to it .Walk the bar around,put a cut vertical where you want the wedge to end on both sides,cut the felling cut .Come up about 2" inches in back make the drop cut ..It will pretty much follow the hinge .It will fall over weather it's level or not .Just don't let it fall on you .A wedge or two might help at times .

Al, it must have been so very long ago that you started dropping trees (was Kennedy president?) that you forget how its not so easy for beginners...

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I almost never walk the bar around, because it seems that it never stay flat and I get all sort of sloppiness but no horizontal line.

 

[rfwoody]

Welcome Robert!

Thanks Limbrat!

 

[rfwoody]

That's Bermy's trick, Carl.

Maybe read this thread Robert, and welcome.

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?6352-Drop-and-flop-oak-S-Georgia-style

Thanks a lot, Burnham! (I see you are my age)
Great thread. Thanks.

 

[rfwoody]

Start your cut standing back from the tree more, cutting with the tip/ far end of the bar, if it helps you see better. Once started, stand back and check, then cut as usual.

Are you consistent, but inaccurate (e.g. always tip down)?

Thanks, SeanKroll. I haven't felled enough in a row that I remember from one time to the next.
Ha, I just know they tend to be inaccurate... the face cut is usually a little off level and I especially have trouble making the two sides of the back cut meet when I bore cut and the bar is too short to go all the way through.

 

[murphy4trees]

the two sides of the back cut don't need to meet.... they can bypass a little and its irrelevant to the hinge..

 

[MasterBlaster]

True.

 

[SeanKroll]

If bypassing, Second cut lower than the first, like a snap cut.



When boring, shave off the back bark, allowing you to know clearly what is wood and what is bark on the backstrap. Bore in, moving your buried bar back to the back strap, until your the bar nose cuts through the far side, rear. Go around the tree, insert your bar, and cut up to the hinge. Release your back strap of holding wood below your bore cut, or dead even with it. You don't want the saw to be grabbed by the tree.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Murphy4trees and MasterBlaster. For the reminder/confirmation that functionally the mismatched cuts will work and snap with no problems.
I guess I am using this as sort of a litmus test for myself that I know where the bar and the tip of the bar is for overall precision.
Ha, I probably have too much time on my hands and it is more of a part-time thing for me instead of a real job like most of you pros.
But I am wanting to learn all I can and improve toward excellence.

 

[rfwoody]

If bypassing, Second cut lower than the first, like a snap cut.



When boring, shave off the back bark, allowing you to know clearly what is wood and what is bark on the backstrap. Bore in, moving your buried bar back to the back strap, until your the bar nose cuts through the far side, rear. Go around the tree, insert your bar, and cut up to the hinge. Release your back strap of holding wood below your bore cut, or dead even with it. You don't want the saw to be grabbed by the tree.

Thanks SeanKroll.
I had seen somewhere about cutting the backstrap either above or below the plane of the backcut... but I couldn't remember which it was and I didn't know *why* ... NOW I know WHY.. If you cut it above the backcut, the falling tree might grab the saw, right?
And by boring toward the rear... saying the backstrap is at 12 oclock, if you bore in at 9 oclock (face on the right) and come back toward the backstrap and come out say where the bar is at 11 and 1 with the backstrap on the left... the diameter of the stump is smaller there and the shorter bar will come through, Do I understand correctly?

 

[rfwoody]

This one has some good discussion, too.

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?14408-Level-Stumps-on-Steep-Ground

Thanks Burnham! I've had this page pulled up for a while but just now getting a chance to look at it.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Do I understand correctly?

I think you do but your wording isn't very clear, you mix two positions of reference. Usually, the "clock" is with you, 12 in front.

And by boring toward the rear... saying the backstrap is at 12 oclock, if you bore in at 9 oclock (face on the right) and come back toward the backstrap and come out say where the bar is at 11 and 1 with the backstrap on the left... the diameter of the stump is smaller there and the shorter bar will come through,

Try like that:
And by boring toward the rear... saying the backstrap should be at 9 o'clock, you bore in at 6 o'clock (face on the right, aimed toward 3 o'clock), cut back toward the backstrap and stop when the bar's nose comes out at 10 o'clock (dogs at 8 o'clock) with the backstrap on the left...

And no, the diameter isn't smaller at all. Just the bar isn't no more at the diameter but at a cord, obviously less long than the diameter. Eventually the bar becomes long enough but don't take that for granted. In the case the bar can't come out, guess where it is and bore the far side in the same manner.

Careful with the thickness of the bark. If the bar is a little too short, it's easy to cut to much wood in the strap, in the hope to see the nose piercing the bark.

 

[SeanKroll]

...

Careful with the thickness of the bark. If the bar is a little too short, it's easy to cut to much wood in the strap, in the hope to see the nose piercing the bark.

Cut the bark off the back-strap. Know where the wood is. Be able to see if it is wanting to start to fail, as you approach the back-strap, if a heavy leaner.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Marc-Antoine... "And no, the diameter isn't smaller at all. Just the bar isn't no more at the diameter but at a cord, obviously less long than the diameter. " ... Yes, of course, got it!

Thanks SeanKroll... "..Cut the bark off the back-strap. Know where the wood is...."
and yes, thanks! "...Be able to see if it is wanting to start to fail, as you approach the back-strap, if a heavy leaner."!

 

[biggun]

I was taught to know the feeling of the saw before you cut.

What I mean by that is if you know your larger saw and bar combos are a bit tip heavy, you will already know how the saw hangs when held, you will then know that the tip e.g. Needs to come up a couple of inches. Like wise on a conventional face cut holding a saw on the corner of the handle should leave the bar about 45deg. So each cut would have the same angles. Once you get those mastered it is time to see how trees respond to larger or narrower face cuts. Dogs tooth or back strap and humbolts. Not necessarily in that order as reading the tree should determine the best cut for the task.

Practice makes it all easier.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Rich!

 

[SeanKroll]

Rich, what's a dog's tooth? Letterbox/ gut the hinge?

 

[MasterBlaster]

FWIW, a dog ear is a bad trimming cut.

 

[biggun]

Bore an' release mate.

In the U.K. They teach the release cut to be 45 degrees meeting the bore cut to release the stem and let the hinge do the biz.

Resulting stump has a little triangle piece of wood at the back resembling a dogs canine. Hence the name.