how often do you need to have the groundy let a piece run for your safety?

[CoreyYLTG]

I almost never require a ground man to do anything a certain way for my safety, when it comes to lowering. I cannot remember the last time I relied on something like a smooth run for my safety. Even Lawrence, in the video you referenced on TB, Daniel, was taking the usual precautionary avoidance measures.
Far more often than needing a run for my safety I, say things like, "Don't worry about me."
Or, "keep it up." "Settle it down up here." Or, "tie it off and back away."
Does anybody else find themselves saying similar things?
"Don't be a hero."
"If you misjudge the weight, your hands better be burned."
"We aren't cool yet, we're only cool if we leave without damage."
Don't get me wrong. I love a good run. I just rarely require one for anything more than efficiency and happiness, not so much safety.

I have watched all your videos and subscribe to your youtube channel and think your one of the greats, but I can't do this. If I had to rig stuff up so I didn't rely on a groundsman every time I made a cut I couldn't do my job. If he trust me not to kill him with a log throw why can't I trust him to let it run?

Nobody wants to hire a sub, so they only do it if they have too. That being said if you get hired as a Sub you better get it done in a day. That being said if I'm trusting a guy not to chip my climb line why can't I trust him to work the ropes to the best effect of my safety and production?

 

[August Hunicke]

Ya, all I'm saying is, we use good guys and they usually make us look good with smooth runs but when they don't run it smooth and they have too many wraps or something I don't die as a result of it.

 

[Mick!]

I was out on the end of a poplar limb, which had mistletoe all over, I had to take off 15ft, I got as far as I could but, as you know, it's not the strongest. It was above an outbuilding so I couldn't drop it. I had to rope it off itself.

So I said to the guy, I really need it to run, then stop above the outbuilding otherwise the bounce would have crushed my family jewels. Anyway, he did it right.

That was the only time recently that I've really HAD to have it run.

As has been said I cannot conceive where you'd be relying on someone else estimating 2 or 3 wraps to stop me being squished.

 

[Mick!]

I would add that we often run stuff to get it through undergrowth/lower branches, but when that goes wrong it's awkward rather than dangerous.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Yates Screamer as one link in the rigging chain to soften excessive shock loads?

 

[theTreeSpyder]

In addition to running rope with gloves,
Ground Control should have sighted out another trunk etc. to take frictions on instantly if necessary.
.
With just trunk wraps this can be extended to adding or subtracting trunk frictions by direction of walk around tree.
.
ALSO, how controllable etc. load is, partially depends on how hard it hits the rope initially.
So, if climber can limit the initial hit/impact to line, everything just starts off less loaded/safer.
.
If run stuff daily to keep load off of stem, rope, connected hardware;
OCCASIONALLY running rope for climbing safety, just takes extra care to make this one best; not to l-earn on the spot, under gunfire.
.
Even with this, climber plan pre-wired in brain like martial art move of where will try to slide to etc.;
(also daily exercise) will help too!

 

[Chris E]

If I'm running ropes I'll sometimes run forward a few paces, I'm unsure if its technically more effective.... to me the logic is that there's less friction to be controlled by hand alone if already moving forward - unsure but likely common practice

 

[squisher]

I did the same, for the initial 'hit' to avoid letting the rope run through my hands so much. In my (simple) mind i figured it gave me better control and less chance of the piece running away on me if I didn't have enough on the brake. Conversely if there was to much on the brake I felt it helped to get the rope running a bit. Assuming there's proper room for it and all.

 

[CoreyYLTG]

I'm going to have to admit I'm confused? You guys are talking about counting on groundsman to estimate wraps? Do you guys not dictate wraps from aloft? If I'm climbing, I have the current work piece in my hands, I can see up close how big it is. Therefore I can make a pretty solid guess as to what the portawrap needs. I set the rigging, call a command to dictate wraps and slack, and when I'm satisfied that has been accomplished I make the cut. I may depend on a groundsman to let a piece run, but I'm not depending on the guy to look 90' up and tell how many wraps it needs.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I holler out how many wraps if it's a noob, but a regular guy usually knows what to do just from looking.

 

[Altissimus]

Same here , all I ever say is this one is lighter , heavier , or about the same.

 

[Chris E]

yep, a for a guy that knows what hes doing he can decide how many wraps

 

[CoreyYLTG]

You guys are insane.

If you're the climber you're the most knowledgeable guy there. You have the piece in your hands, you KNOW what it needs. I have a guy that has roped for me for 7 years and we still communicate how many wraps on a work piece before I cut. If it won't run I'm the one who gets smashed, not him, so why not make contact with him and communicate?

 

[pantheraba]

Here is one example of how it works...I have only run a PW a few times so I don't really know how many wraps for a limb. I am the one in the tree. My son always sets it up and runs it...he is way better at it than me.

 

[August Hunicke]

Talk before execution is fine but wrap judgment is ultimately on the rope man.
Because he's the man running the rope.
Same as driver is responsible for damage even if he is misdirected by guide man. If you stand to be smashed by his potential mistake, you should do something else.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I have a guy that has roped for me for 7 years and we still communicate how many wraps on a work piece before I cut.

Anyone who has worked with me that long should (unless something odd was going on that he couldn't see) AUTOMATICALLY know how many wraps to take.

I shouldn't have to say a word except "Ready?"

 

[treebilly]

I offer advise to a newer rope man but it is ultimately his decision. The amount of wraps depends on how he runs the rope. One guy I work with uses more wraps but he is light on the rope. Another likes to feel more so he uses less wraps. Both do very good for me but I always brace for the worst. A rope man is NEVER gonna be the one to give me a major injury. It will be my fault. I trust my guys to keep me safe but I do what it takes to help them out. I've dealt with enough bad ones to know how to keep myself from getting hurt and know that any one can make a mistake.
I'll add that the best rope man I've worked with beat the hell out of me on a top I took. He climbed the next removal and I let him feel what it was like. I can now trust him with my life on anything.

 

[MasterBlaster]

One thing for sure!

He'd better be wearing gloves!!!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Always be ready.......
FF to 14:52
Two aspects of vid.... Throwing the top, the pitch that had built up on the bollard got missed. Proper amount of wraps. I have good rope guys.. Just one boo boo...
It happens..... beeeeeeeee ready
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ji7RUr_BBI4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Grendel]

Those trees are insanely tall.

80' is the ceiling around here. Probably barley to the first branches on those puppies.

 

[murphy4trees]

when you're up there that far no one to talk to except yourself

 

[Sgriff]

I would have been letting the rope guy hear about that one,on the other hand,i get whipped alot harder alot of the time....

 

[pantheraba]

Pretty cool and calm in expressing "that didn't run well"

 

[August Hunicke]

I offer advise to a newer rope man but it is ultimately his decision. The amount of wraps depends on how he runs the rope. One guy I work with uses more wraps but he is light on the rope. Another likes to feel more so he uses less wraps. Both do very good for me but I always brace for the worst. A rope man is NEVER gonna be the one to give me a major injury. It will be my fault. I trust my guys to keep me safe but I do what it takes to help them out. I've dealt with enough bad ones to know how to keep myself from getting hurt and know that any one can make a mistake.

Rich, I can't really agree with that part you added at the end but this part summarizes PERFECTLY what I would have said about it if I had been as eloquent.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Those trees are insanely tall.

80' is the ceiling around here. Probably barley to the first branches on those puppies.

That one was about 150 ish.... With a crazy couple bends in it. Damn thing would bounce with every pick.. I started small anticipating it. But no matter... Ride the ride.

when you're up there that far no one to talk to except yourself

Helmet comms... get ya some

I would have been letting the rope guy hear about that one,on the other hand,i get whipped alot harder alot of the time....

Ohh we had a meeting when I hit the ground. New SOP on a pitchy tree... CHECK THE BOLLARD for PITCH BUILD UP. I did not put blame on anyone. All the guys are good at running the lines. But some awareness of conditions was needed and was pointed out for all.

Pretty cool and calm in expressing "that didn't run well"

Sometimes, it just is what is what it is and there was a bunch of tree to negative block down. No need to get nasty.