How do you sharpen saw chain?

[woodworkingboy]

Lots of guys require maximum rpms to cut a little twig off a tree. Might as well pour your gas out into the gutter.

 

[HolmenTree]

Lots of guys require maximum rpms to cut a little twig off a tree. Might as well pour your gas out into the gutter.

Alot of those guy's saws are so dull that they need maximum rpms to cut that little twig.
As I see it....... as a saw's air filter gets dirtier and the saw runs slower the operator gets used to it and thinks nothing is wrong, same goes for the sawchain.

 

[woodworkingboy]

It's a case of sensory deprivation, when you can't see the smoke and smell the burning. Earmuffs almost makes it complete.

 

[Al Smith]

It takes about 5 minutes to file a 20" loop . I'd like to see somebody change one out faster than that .

 

[woodworkingboy]

and not have the chain on backwards...

 

[CurSedVoyce]

 

[Bodean]

In a vice, or just on the bench, maybe on the ground with my knee in it's back,
It's always, right hand on the file and left one on the tooth.
I use gloves nowadays because opening your knuckle sucks.

 

[Bodean]

In a vice, or just on the bench, maybe on the ground with my knee in it's back,
It's always, right hand on the file and left one on the tooth.
I use gloves nowadays because opening your knuckle sucks.

 

[winch]

"I agree with Brian, I think the main thing is that you have never learned to sharpen properly, to the point where it is just a matter of course, and the time factor becomes a lessened element in the vast majority of cases. My tendency as a homeowner who wanted tree work done, and also still knowing what I do about woodwork, would be to wonder about the other qualifications of someone that doesn't do their own sharpening"

I feel as if I'm repeating myself here, but let me say it another way, if I can. I don't sharpen because I don't enjoy it, and it doesn't make me money. Pausing for 5-10 minutes to file on the job, when I can simply pick up another saw, seems inefficient. My tendency, as far as homeowners goes, is probably not explaining to them upon meeting how I sharpen my saws. That might come up in conversation later, after the job is secured, but my customers are usually impressed by professionalism, not a guy sharpening their saw on the lawn. As a homeowner, if I saw an arborist sharpening a saw in my lawn, sitting down, not getting the job done efficiently (cut now, sharpen later), I would wonder about how they plan their day, and what I was paying them for.

"I watch alot of guys cut and as soon as the saw is making lots of revs , noise and throwing chips like crazy they feel strong , immortal and at the same time they let their guard down and cut into the dirt when bucking that log.
Sounds familar doesn't it?"

Yep, sounds like a noob. Though I have seen my fair share of old-timers hit gravel then totally deny it when I call them out.

I never hit dirt!

 

[Magnus]

Shit happen.

I cut in dirt often. The wood I have as firewood is crap mostly and full of strange stuff not meant to be cut in.
For me it is better to file when I get home. I have a file and touch it up if it is just worn from running thru wood, but that is not often.

When I worked I filed every tank. Keeping it sharp and saving time, wear, fuel etc.

I can see the point in sending chains of to be filed, but have a hard time to see how it would work practically.
How many chains do you use at the same time? Several batches and sending out a batch now and then?
If you cut full day's that would mean 3-4 chains if it is good wood unless you run then dull or not sharp to begin with.
If you then send once a week, that would mean 15-20 chains....
Doesn't seem very practical, but I don't think I understand how you do it...

 

[treesmith]

It takes about 5 minutes to file a 20" loop . I'd like to see somebody change one out faster than that .

It can be done Al......I've seen Carl do it several times.

Did I understand correctly......$10.85/each to sharpen a chain? I don't pay but ~$15/chain for new chain. And if I touch them up after every two or three tanks of gas, it takes less than 5 minutes, probably no more than 3 minutes. Of course if one gets too dull, I can change it out for a new one (and sharpen the dull one later), or just set the saw down and grab another one. I gen'ly have 7 or 8 in the truck at any given time.

 

[treesmith]

I don't sharpen because I don't enjoy it, and it doesn't make me money. Pausing for 5-10 minutes to file on the job, when I can simply pick up another saw, seems inefficient. My tendency, as far as homeowners goes, is probably not explaining to them upon meeting how I sharpen my saws. That might come up in conversation later, after the job is secured, but my customers are usually impressed by professionalism, not a guy sharpening their saw on the lawn. As a homeowner, if I saw an arborist sharpening a saw in my lawn, sitting down, not getting the job done efficiently (cut now, sharpen later), I would wonder about how they plan their day, and what I was paying them for.

I like to get away as quickly as possible too, but some things are necessary. I have never had a customer act as though my sharpening a saw on the job was unprofessional. Often they'll ask for tips, and sometimes I'll touch theirs up for them. Just touch them up, mind you, not sharpen them the way I do my own......

 

[lumberjack]

That's what I was fixing to say, Scott. One thing that saves time is there might only be 2 turns of the tensioner between the old and new chain. I should time myself sometime.

I hear you about not enjoying sharpening, Winch. I don't either, so I swap to a new chain. 20" Stihl costs about $16 a loop, an inconsequential amount.


I also agree that there is nothing unprofessional in sharpening a chain. The time required to sharpen or change a chain easily justifies itself.

I used to have an absurd amount of money tied up in saws. Now I bring one saw to the job and TCOB. Every once in a long while I'll use one of Scott's (Treesmtih) saws.

 

[Tree Reb]

And before the shitstorm hits me, I did not say that city arborists can't file a chain.

But in my experience, not many can do it as well or as fast as the pro faller, who makes his/her living by the amount of trees they can cut, limb or buck in a day.

You guys get it too easy, nice clean trees. I wish I was back working in the bush sometimes, this suburban work is a chain killer. You'd be amazed how much stuff people could attach/nail/screw/tie to trees in a couple of hundred years, let alone termite crap and gritty bark.

You just have to know how to hand file. I always carry spare chains as well, doesn't take long to change one.

 

[HolmenTree]

Back in the day when I logged in the bush for a living, I cut on a piecework production basis 2 species of trees, spruce and pine. The spruce [most common] grew in nice clean mossy ground, I could cut all day and into the next without touching up the chain with a file. The cutting action in the clean spruce honed the gullets and cutting edges of the cutters like a mirror making them actually sharper then a freshly filed chain. Even the rough filed surface of the depth gauges [rakers] would hone mirror smooth into the perfect angle matching the cutters bite, which greatly reduces friction and increased cutting speed.
But when cutting pine which favors growing on sandy ground and sand is embedded in the bark, touching up the chain's cutters is a constant process throughout the day. Only takes a few minutes with 2-3 strokes per cutter though.
Urban trees? Yes a real PIA, lots of metal embedded alot of times.

 

[sotc]

Y'all are going to run winch off, give the guy a break i'm sure everyone but me has something the rest could pick apart...

 

[HolmenTree]

As the saying goes "never call tree mutilators butchers because real butchers are highly skilled professionals.
Having said that when I think of a butcher I see him or her running that sharpening hone down their knives edge. Wood cutting pros do the same.

 

[stig]

I break and make my chains, and even if it was the same cost for me to make a new one as it was to get one sharpened, I would probably still do it just to save the resource. Then again, I might just use them once if it was the same, and sell a batch on ebay.

You have said that you use chains untill they only cuts about 90%, then change them.

But the above sounds like you'll put a brand new, never sharpened chain to use.

A chain straight off the roll cuts with less than 90% of one that has been sharpened right IMO.

 

[Magnus]

I agree with this, Stig.
The new is not done, just good place to start. A new chain will not perform very well or long...

I don't mean to run of anyone, I just want to try and understand how this work practically.
I do agree it is better for some to leave it alone and let others do it. If there is no interest or basic skill to begin with it won't turn out well even after practice.

 

[winch]

Let me make it clear that I wasn't calling anyone unprofessional for sharpening in the lawn. Merely pointing out that a homeowner may think sharpening on the job is just as putzy as is sending chains out - a response to woodworkingboy's assertion that they would have doubts about me for not sharpening.

I don't have hurt feelings, nor will I get any from a forum. I like dishing it out and throwing it back. Yes, I pay ON AVERAGE $10.85 a chain. This includes the 6' 3120 chain as well as the 12" pole chainsaw chain. Understand? Whatever chain it is, it costs about $11. I don't know what I pay for a new one on average (break my own, haven't checked, maybe should), but I'm pretty sure I'm getting a good deal sharpening them rather than throwing them out.

I send out a batch of 10 chains about once every two months. Yep, I'm good at keeping my stuff out of the dirt, and have plenty of spares.

To each his own, whatever works for you, if it's profitable, go with it.

 

[lumberjack]

Where do you send them?

 

[Bounce]

To each his own, whatever works for you, if it's profitable, go with it.

Well said.

 

[HolmenTree]

I send out a batch of 10 chains about once every two months.

winch if your only sending out 10 chains every 2 months then keep doing what your doing. I use up that many in less then a month filed down until the cutters start breaking off and I work alone.
But I have to ask how long are you cutting with those chains when dull in that 2 months?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Not wanting to give grief, but since Winch has addressed my comments a couple of times I think, I want to respond.

I'm trying to get a perspective of what the difference is between sharpening your chain and the other basic maintenance that is required to keep a saw running efficiently. Doing those tasks can both be considered profitable or not profitable, depending on how you look at it. My own feeling about it, and I'm not trying to coerce winch into changing his philosophy....much , is that when I see people who have gone from an era of using hand tools that they sharpened themselves, to a time when using disposable insert cutters (planes and chisels used by timber framers) became the more common, along with it came a certain dislocation from the work. I heard the description, "No time to sharpen", when enquiring about it with certain individuals. Now, most everyone laments the disappearance of what was the once commonplace fine work. It isn't entirely attributable to the sharpening part for sure, but I see a connection there. That is what I meant by not sharpening yourself, as being a bad omen.

Learning to sharpen has always been the starting point of an apprenticeship in woodwork, where the skills begin to evolve from that point. A different vein from making things besides the carvers, but I think of chainsaw cutting as woodwork. I believe that there are reasons for that as the logical progression of skills beyond just the basic practicality of using sharpness as a fundamental asset in woodworking....once again, related to the connection to the work.

In any manual trade, there are always some experienced people who approach the job in an other than what is normal fashion, developing methods that may be unique, maybe even considered undesirable by the main, but they work for the person using them, or so they claim. Call it an anomaly, or being creative, but also frequently when there are departures from what are generally considered the basic procedures, there is a downside that isn't being understood. Using chains done by sdomeone else and getting the job done, what could not be understood? Beyond the technical apparatus I don't really know, it may be an individual thing. Thinking here along the lines of skills with cutting tools in general.

 

[squisher]

Not sharpening your own chains is mindboggling to me 11 bones to pay someone to file, plus your time to package them and ship them. I'm sorry but that's insane. Often for me a filing is just a 'tickle' to keep 'er like a razor. I'm not trying to be rude either but I've known how to file a saw well since I was 17 my first year in the woods, I just can't imagine not being able to do it or it seeming hard or something. To me it's easy peasy.

I maintain all my own equipment/saws/everything because I like to know it's done right.