How do you sharpen saw chain?

[Al Smith]

That is basically how I file a race chain .Start out with a work chain,round ground chisel just short of being to the first rivet .That chain has seen about as much stretch as it's going to get .Then file off the round with a flat file then go to square .Takes forever .

 

[Jed]

Hey Al:

You gotta try this: Just get any old saw with a dull or very dull or extremely dull round ground. Step 2) DON'T tighten up the chain on the bar. Leave it super loose. 3) Lock, and I mean absolutely LOCK that thing down in some kind of vise (Bench or Stumpvise) 4) Get the square file in both hands and rock the chisel back on the bar with the file. (If the chain is loose, you'll see what I mean by "rocking the chisel back") 5) Absolutely REEF on that son-of-a-gun.

I know what you're thinking, "those files are too expensive to do that with." No! Here's the thing: the looseness of the chain allows the chisel to sort of "vibrate" an incremental ammount, so that the file actually cruises across it quite easily, and yet removes quite a ton of material. No busted teeth on the file or anything. Honest!

 

[Al Smith]

Oh yeah those muti bevel files are like 8 bucks a pop .

 

[sotc]

I've been using a flat file on the top edge when my chain gets rocked, that starts the new angle. Second I use a file and push down and in to C it out to get that nice angle. Then use upward pressure to get the two surfaces to meet at the point. I've been trying to look more and feel less, which seems to work okay. Restoring a messed up chain by hand filing is tough.

jp

So you file the chrome?

 

[HolmenTree]

Ha I don't know how in the world Willard does that .Lawdy I'd have my knees bleeding like a stuck hog .

Al I have safety pants on

 

[thattreeguy]

i cant believe someone actually thought filing chain with a file was because they were poor........wth kinda tree crew doesnt hand file
i bet ya that most my fallers here will make a better edge on their saw with a file, than you would with your grinder

unless that grinder happens to be a silvey

i use my truck toolbox since im so damn tall, file one side, rotate saw, file next side, rakers in same manner, in the bush it may be a stump cut vice, or sitting down with the bar up in air one side then other
and im with brian...one hand to hold the tooth one to hold the file
point is...sharp is good..how ever you get there.


when my chit gets rocked real bad, i grind them on the machine, and touch em up with a file

 

[Magnus]

Some one need to run a grinder as well as a file. Regardless of what it is, it will not get better than you make it! It is not easier to run a grinder. There is even more to learn than with a file.
The more you know, try and learn the better it can get. There are no limits.......

Filing of the chrome in top plate is kind of counter productive. Better is to file back the tooth after damage, keeping correct hight and shape of cutter.
I see this often and tried it a couple times when raker is set too low (too compensate lost of sharpness).

 

[treesandsurf]

When I first saw someone do it I thought it was strange too, tried it a few times and I've noticed on really bad chains it help to straighten out my angle on the top, bust off any chunky pieces from hitting metal or whatever and then I start to clean it up with the round file. Seems to work pretty well so far.

jp

 

[winch]

I send them to a guy who uses an automated sharpener. I hate sharpening chains too much, and have had too many unpleasant results over the years, for me to continue.

That being said, my man does a great job, and the chains come back bagged and labeled.

I used to use a Silvey, then an Oregon grinder for years. Both produced great results sometimes, abysmal results others. I read the owners manuals 10 times. Jerry Locker from Oregon came to our shop once and helped with the Oregon grinder. Still, the mystery of how a just-sharpened chain being immediately dull persisted from time to time.

Now I'm done with the sharpening, testing, and swearing. Great each time.

 

[SkwerI]

You don't file a chain to sharpen it after it is dull, you file it to keep it sharp. If you're sending your chains off to have them sharpened then that means you run them long after they are no longer sharp and keep running them until they are too dull to cut any more. Just like a homeowner.

 

[Al Smith]

I know a couple tree services that send their chains out . Yeah they run them so dull all they do is pull sawdust towards the end .Not a good practice IMO .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Run dull chain and buy more chainsaws. Not even the saw manufacturers want to recommend that.

 

[Al Smith]

When that bunch of loggers took down those dead ash and white oak the other day ,they had dull chains .Poor old Ms 660 just a gettin it ,getting stuck a dozen times in the cut and pulling sawdust .I kept my mouth shut though ,it was hard but I perservered .

 

[winch]

"You don't file a chain to sharpen it after it is dull, you file it to keep it sharp. If you're sending your chains off to have them sharpened then that means you run them long after they are no longer sharp and keep running them until they are too dull to cut any more. Just like a homeowner. "

Yep, I knew my technique would cause scorn, but didn't expect namecalling, or insinuations. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands if you have time to sharpen after each job, every saw. Personally I run 4 separate saws on most jobs. I don't have a "one-saw-fits-all" mentality, and stay WAY too busy to sharpen my saws daily.

No, not like a homeowner, sir. I run them until they aren't 90% sharp. That's it.

Oh, and it helps when you hit concrete, like I did yesterday, to send out the 40" chain.

I outsource what doesn't make me money. That is how I stay profitable. You?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sharpening after each job, did someone say that? I was thinking more like during a job, when required. "No time to sharpen", is a bad omen, imo. Any type of woodwork.

 

[sotc]

Winch, what does it end up costing you per chain, overall?

 

[Bounce]

I adhere to the Abraham Lincoln school of tree cutting: "Give me 8 hours to chop down a tree, and I'll spend the first 4 sharpening my axe."

 

[stig]

Winch, you have to realize that the members here are all different kinds of critters.

The city arborists get by with chains that would starve the professional timberfallers.

And before the shitstorm hits me, I did not say that city arborists can't file a chain.

But in my experience, not many can do it as well or as fast as the pro faller, who makes his/her living by the amount of trees they can cut, limb or buck in a day.
( the "her" was not dictated by PC. We have a local female faller who puts out more volume than most of the guys. Smallish woman, living proof that great falling tecnique and a sharp chain beats brawn any day)

A lot of the Treehousers started out in the woods before moving into arborism.
That means they have an attitude towards someone who can't sharpen a chain by hand.

That is all it means.

 

[winch]

No offense taken, except when one likens me to a "homeowner." Thick skin, but I will throw it right back at you if you throw something at me.

SOTC, I will break it down for you and get back to you later. I am guessing between $8-12/chain. I break and make my chains, and even if it was the same cost for me to make a new one as it was to get one sharpened, I would probably still do it just to save the resource. Then again, I might just use them once if it was the same, and sell a batch on ebay.

Like I said, I'll get back to you on that. The guy who does mine is amazing, and has changed a couple aspects of my business. He also does chipper knives and has put me in touch with some important people.

 

[winch]

Looked back on the last year's receipts, turns out to be $10.85 per chain. That includes shipping.

Personally I would much rather go to the post office with 10 chains in a box (total time spent 1/2 hour) than sharpen each chain each time it needs it (? total time invested).

It may not be the way everyone does it, but my typical work week is 60 hours, and it only goes up from there, on average. Not including desk time. Bad omen? I guess I can see that, but then again, I just focus on what makes me money and keeps me happy. Sharpening chains does not do either of these things.

 

[SkwerI]

Maybe if you knew how to sharpen a chain in a reasonable amount of time then you wouldn't need to spend so much time cutting with dull chains and then running to the post office. :roll:

 

[winch]

You don't listen/read too well, Mr. Skwerl. I don't "spend so much time cutting with dull chains...." I cut until they are about 90% (not razor sharp) then send them out. I don't cut with dull saws. I run a small crew, so can oversee how the saws are treated.

I can sharpen a dull chain in about 10 minutes with a grinder. By hand? Forget it. That's for those who aren't busy enough.

Maybe you should start a sharpening business if it's your thing?

 

[Bounce]

Heck, $10.85 per chain is pretty good. Better than I'm paying anyway. And while I'll probably keep on hand-filing my own chains (mostly just because I love to pamper my chainsaws), I would be tempted to send my chains off for sharpening if the price was that low.

One of the best tree guys I've ever worked with hardly ever sharpened his own saws. He would just bring 6-7 saws with him to each job, and when one got dull, threw a chain, or even just ran out gas, he would simply put it back in the truck and grab another one. Then once a week he would bring his dull chains to the saw shop for sharpening, usually a dozen or so at a time. It definitely saved a lot of time on the job, that's for sure.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Breathing can be kind of laborious too. Despite the economics that you say works better for you, and each to his own, I just find it odd that a professional wood cutter has someone else do his sharpening. I agree with Brian, I think the main thing is that you have never learned to sharpen properly, to the point where it is just a matter of course, and the time factor becomes a lessened element in the vast majority of cases. My tendency as a homeowner who wanted tree work done, and also still knowing what I do about woodwork, would be to wonder about the other qualifications of someone that doesn't do their own sharpening. Not saying that you don't do very good work, but just how the peculiarity of your approach strikes. When saying in response to the time element of hand sharpening, "Forget it", the choice of words, it seems a somewhat incomplete perspective, imo.

What about cleaning your saws and other maintenance, do you have time to do those tasks? Would you pay someone to remove and install your chains, that must add up too?

 

[HolmenTree]

Besides skill to sharpen sawchain it also takes skill to run a chainsaw avoiding the ground rocks etc. Only exception is metal or stone in a tree which no one can see to avoid. But most times alot of chain dulling can be avoided with good careful saw handling.
I watch alot of guys cut and as soon as the saw is making lots of revs , noise and throwing chips like crazy they feel strong , immortal and at the same time they let their guard down and cut into the dirt when bucking that log.
Sounds familar doesn't it?