How do you sharpen saw chain?

[Magnus]

It is not a easy subject to discuss. It is a bit personal and sometimes it gets a tad confusing as it involve a lot of personal experiences, skill, knowledge and preferences.

I find not many really know what they can get out of a chain. They are content as long as it cuts wood.

When stuff happen and they show up asking what is wrong it is not always the best thing to tell them. Sometimes it works, but most times best is to take a couple saws and let them try. After that they usually have pride and feelings nicely tucked a way and are more open to learning.
I had loggers here that had been running not so sharp/good cutting saws for 25 years. I have a Arborist that rather keep buying new than learn how to do it better than those he buy. He has no interest in learning this.

It is not up to me to say what is right or wrong. I can only say what I learned and think work from my perspective.

But for those few I can tell there is a small hope to show them something I do. Sometimes it works, but mostly not.
A couple ask and try to learn. These will learn and make more money in what they do as their expenses are lower.
They can enjoy cutting more and do it with less effort.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Cool post, Magnus.

Aside from the philosophy part, which may be bs....one mans beliefs can be another man's bs, I was thinking about the practical aspect of sending out your chains. It strikes me that you would be getting a lot better use for good cutting out of a chain that you can sharpen yourself. When cutting, you reach that point where the saw is starting to noticeably dull, still usable, but with a touch up you are back to quick cutting. Easy peasy, I think Squish said. If you go the way of changing out your chain, you either put a new one on then, or you don't and keep cutting longer with one that really should be sharpened up at that point for the better efficiency. If you decided to change it out, then you are really doing it too early, where a quick touch up would suffice. So, my big theory is that swapping chains makes you change them either too early or too late, when cutting in your average dulling conditions. Can I get a witness?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Not sharpening your own chains is mindboggling to me

 

[winch]

Ahhh. (that's a relief-type sigh sound).

I don't feel as attacked now, and everyone is talking pretty well civilized about this personal subject. Thanks for that.

$11 per chain for me is not too bad. A little tickle on the chain? I might actually try that. It's been a long time since I hand-sharpened, maybe I'll love it. But I won't do it in someone's yard!

I do the rest of the maintenance on my equipment - chipper, mini, truck. I didn't replace the alternator in my truck last week. I let someone else do that. Why? Because I would be spending time doing something that I can't do as well, or as efficiently, as someone else. Plus, I needed the truck back the next day to continue making money.

I outsource the chains when they get a little dull. Like I said, you all might have changed my perspective a little bit on the subject, I might try a hand file.

To address just one more question - when I change the chain I clean the saw - this is not a chore I have time to do daily, either.

I'm not insane, Squish. Maybe close, but not there yet. Still making money doing this tree thing.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I never take chain sharpening personally unless some one hands me a dull one to cut with








<-- -------------smiling

 

[Paul B]

I never take it personally either. The first few chains I had that went dull I just threw in a box and bought new ones. Eventually I gave them to my pops in law and he sharpened them all up. I dont use the chainsaw much, it worked out fine for me.

 

[winch]

If anyone is interested in getting the contact information on where I get them sharpened, just send me a private message, I'll put you in touch.

That way you don't have to look like a sissy in front of everyone! 8>

 

[wiley_p]

A chain straight off the roll cuts with less than 90% of one that has been sharpened right IMO.

You are close Stig. Chain right off the roll, is dull IME.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I think so, too.

 

[sotc]

If anyone is interested in getting the contact information on where I get them sharpened, just send me a private message, I'll put you in touch.

That way you don't have to look like a sissy in front of everyone! 8>

Me me!

 

[Al Smith]

I think they get about 7 bucks a pop to grind chains here .I'll have to take their word for it though because as I said ,I file .Lawdy though that is about half what it cost for loop of Oregon or a fourth for Stihl .Seems a tad high .

 

[Jed]

Winch: As far as Willies' suggested fear of "running you off" goes: you've proven yourself way too much of a man for that. On the other hand: a few folks that we know around here (Brian: were you in a super pissed-off mood or what????) have been quite rude to you. You in turn, have acquitted yourself with the utmost gentility. (Having been inbred, I can't really relate, but that's another matter.)

The point is sir: all of these questions of internet decorum aside we really MUST convert you. I can definitely understand and relate to the point that you raised about the importance of your affiliation with the tradesman who does your sharpening. That, to me, sounds like a really cool business relationship, and I, personally would not have you neglect that. However: Dearest Sir, aren't you simply being just the slightest tad daft? If it's "money" that you're so interested in, may I ask: what on God's green earth got you into THIS trade in the first place? Hadn't you better pursue a career at Microsoft? Secondly. Did you read Jay's Woodworkingboy's) post about the tree-cutter being likened to a tradesman? That comes nearest to the point. Instead of your perception of your work--I'm not presuming that you don't enjoy other elements of your trade--as being a mere means to a financial end, you COULD be (trust me) absolutely relishing what now constitutes--for you--a dreaded chore. You just have to believe me.

Listen. Try this experiment. PLEASE!!!!!!!

Do you Drink? If so go to the fridge and grab out as much as you can possibly drink, before God, your conscience, or the little lady will start to give you a hard time. Second: Grab a dull, rusty, round-file. Third: get into an area with the worst possible lighting. (I don't recommend total darkness for obvious reasons .) Third: set the power-saw on the ground with absolutely no means of securement. Fourth: Make five very hard and not very careful strokes at each tooth. Fifth: absolutely BUTCHER any approach to professionalism at the filing of the rakers/depth-gauges with the flat file.

What will be the end result?: I GUARANTEE that the way that that saw cuts will provide you with a way greater sense of genuine aesthetic joy and self-fulfillment that any two-bit sharpening pro out in California could ever give you in a thousand years. I don't care how nice he is. Go out and have a beer with him, but don't employ him anymore. Tell him to get his tail out of the filing shed and go do a tree job.

When you eventually learn to file a saw that will cut gloriously straight, we'll send you out a double-bevel or triangular (square) file, and knock you back down to a brand-new level of misery.

Or just keep having your chains sharpened.

You seem like a genuinely great guy.... Good to have you around.

 

[Al Smith]

I had these pictures on a few years back to show T. how to file a chain .This is just one method of many .

One pic shows an Oregon file guide which if used correctly is nearly fool proof .Not as sharp as a free hand filed chain but as sharp as most machine ground .Cheap,easy to use .

Another pic shows the 10 degree up angle used on Oregon 72 series chains ,some use it,some do not . A personal preference on that

 

[Jed]

Yeah: Perfect Al. If we got Winch that file guide thing, he cld sharpen up anything in notime!

Yeah: What's up with the 10 degree upward tilt thing. I've noticed that all the old-timers at my work use that, but the saw manuals all say to do a straight across 90? Do you know what the heck is up with that? Seems like they're trying to borrow from the double-bevel style of filing or something, but why would we have any assurances that the same methodology would apply to a completely different file?

NICE, VERY nice, 038, by the way. I am very, very jealous of you sir.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Some tooth profiles have the cutting edge at a 10 degree upward angle.

 

[Jed]

Jay: I assume you're talking about the Pferd files from Germany. But why the deuce wld we change the angle for that, since the Swiss round files have more like a 25 degree "upward angle" but we just file a straight across 90 with those as well?

But, still, thanks for the intelligent response. I just can't get my inbred brain around how it cld matter.

 

[woodworkingboy]

No Jed, the cutter (tooth) has an upward angle to it's profile. Filing with the elevated tilt just fits the face of it. Sorry I can't better describe.

 

[SkwerI]

Jed, some of the older Oregon chain styles called for filing at a 10 degree upward angle to make a more blunt point to compensate for their soft, weak metal. Filing straight across will give you a finer corner point with more aggressive cutting but a soft tooth will wear down and dull quicker. I prefer the harder Stihl chain and a level file for a sharper, more aggressive corner.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I didn't realize that it was a compensation for weaker steel. I believe that some of the Oregon chains made from the same steel didn't call for the upward filing. Now I'm confused. The ones that did have the ten degree angle recommended, I believe came out of the box that way.

 

[SkwerI]

That is completely my opinion and my assumption, Oregon never has and never will admit that their chains are made from softer steel than Stihl chains. And they certainly wouldn't admit that their custom 10 degree upward filing angle is to compensate for their soft steel not being able to hold an edge with a sharper angle.

 

[NeTree]

Having access to hardness testing equipment, I could prove or disprove that easily.

But in my experience, you're absolutely right.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Whether it is the steel or some coating, without a doubt the Stihl one is a harder material. The file says so.

 

[top_notch]

"C" for me. Only had experience with Sthil chain and files. Left side of the chain then the right. Is the line on the rakers an angle guide or are they not supposed to be taken down past that point? What's the best way to measure the correct raker height? Had a chain on our 441 that was somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 of the cutter left and did 5 strokes on the raker with the stihl flat file. The saw definitely ate through some green cottonwood, but I could feel it pull more than it did before the rakers were taken down. Cut very nice in my opinion, and was making some delicious looking hash browns! Too bad they weren't potatoes.

 

[Jed]

Jay: Thanks a lot. This time I got exactly what you meant about simply maintaining the angle that some chains were already ground at.

Brian: I get it... I think. Seems like the upward angle wld certainly produce less of a hook or "beak" for the sideplate, thus rendering it more durable.

I can't be the only one who learns something new about this trade just about every single day I do it... Perpetual green guy.

 

[Jed]

Hey Top Notch: you need--IMO--the little brass-colored Stihl Gauge thing from the saw shop with the little slot in the middle so that you'll file down to the right elevation. Works like a champ IMO. Yeah you can get away with crazy low stops in Cottonwood, but don't bury the bar of that saw in a big Fir: It'll just be super grabby and nasty and will bog down the saw.