How do you guys decide which trees to climb?

That was a good question, Sean. Yeah, Flash...pictures will be good. Good elements to this thread. You are doing a good job of soliciting info and paying attention to what folks say. Haven't picked up any smart-assery here...just studied pondering of possibilities offered.
 
For the bit of extra work I have had great results w sky lines from taller healthy adjacent Trees when the target Tree can't be trusted. Same when I do snow removal on roofs. 200' line comes in handy.
 
I have used them for tree work and painting my house. I was on a ladder about 30 feet up leaning back painting the highest of the eaves...felt the slight sensation of being past that unrecoverable point of balance...just relaxed and took a 10 foot slow fall as the high line caught me. It saved my butt that time.
 
Damn. Tall, eab kill, nothing adjacent, not a great lean. I'd seriously consider pulling that bad boy over whole and collateral damage to surrounding trees be damned. Downhill toward the road, what's below the bank? Homes? Is the roadway blacktopped?

My two cents.
 
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Grendel, there is a house below on the bank. The driveway is blacktop. I have access to mo-mats at work that we drive trucks on over wet ground. I was going to put a few down then a couple layers of pallets to absorb some impact. As I've looked over the whole thing though I think the tree landing in the pallets would just fling pieces of pallets everywhere. At this point the best spot may just be through the two pines. I'll let the pros decide... I AM interested to hear everyone's take though now that there are pictures.
 
Yep. Green Ash with those tall, spindly tops. This is generally what I tackle around here, though our Green Ash don't get quite that tall.

I generally work these trees using the tip-tie rigging method, taking small pieces. Pull an arborist block high into the tree (you won't be able to climb that high) and then use the tip-tie rigging method, working at about the 1/2 way point up the tree.

The forces are multiplied using this method. In this case, you'd be looking at 4 times greater weight than the piece you'll be rigging down. On a dead tree, these multiplied forces may be too much. Small pieces......very small pieces.....and no shock loading. It's tedious, time-consuming work.

Joel
 
Static Removable False Crotch (IIRC) shown in the Art and Science of whateveritis Rigging, by ISA, you avoid the double-doubling.

2x's, not 4x's multiplication.

Here's a video, actually.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O-lvIcjUEiY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Sean,

Good point. Reducing the forces when working a dead tree is a very important consideration.

I love those remotely installed and retrievable tools. I use mine on the heavier stuff, but in most cases the trees up here in North Dakota are so small that we don't really need it. I use the Pinto Rig pulley combined with a length of Sterling Atlas 9/16" rope in a base-tie setup for most everything I tackle. This is the system I use when taking green ash limbs that are about 16 feet long by 3" in diameter at the hinge......about 100 pounds. It's rare to find anything larger than that up here. I should point out that I NEVER use this lightweight setup for negative rigging.

Joel
 
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Ok...question. I understand that you are setting a block remotely from the ground. I understand that you can tie the tip of the selected branch from the ground and run the line through the block. What do you do then? How do you cut the branch from 30-40 below? Or do you just horse on it and break it?
 
Flashover604,

You'll need to climb to the highest crotch that you believe will support you and your equipment, as well as any other forces that come into play. I can't tell you how high that will be. You'll need to carefully survey the tree to determine how far you dare climb.

Ideally, you'd want to be able to get high enough to cut most of the highest branches from the tree. You won't be able to cut all of them. The top of the tree.......the part remaining after you remove all of the branches that you were able to reach.......will be removed with a single cut. You'll drop about 1/3 of the tree with this cut, and you'll have someone pulling on the top with some mechanical advantage (fiddle blocks for example) to help guide the top in the direction you intend it to fall. It appears that you have room in the driveway for this process to take place. Making a proper hinge cut is extremely important here. You must absolutely avoid putting any tension on the control line while this cut is being made, because you don't want it to barber chair on you while you're up there working.

I always try to reduce the weight of the tree top on one side......opposite of the direction of fall. You'll leave most of the branches attached on the side that you plan for the top to fall, once it is cut loose. In other words, you're removing weight from one side of the top in order to aid its fall in the direction you plan to drop it. Don't make one side too heavy. It's better to just barely unbalance the top in your favor.

Joel
 
I should add here, that the more we discuss this situation, the more I hope you realize that this project is really not meant for a beginner. This is a horrible way to be introduced to the tree removal business. There are degrees of learning involved with this business, and I think taking on this job would bypass about 200 of those steps.

Joel
 
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To everyone giving advice and warnings, I'm listening. I understand that I'm not experienced enough to do this particular job. I am, however, enjoying the discussion about how it COULD be done. I've learned new things through this thread.
 
Just to point out another option, you can top the tree, while there are energy-dissipating limbs below the topping cut. You don't have to strip them all. With poor roots, like I understand dead ash to have, this might be important to put less force on the roots.
 
Masterblaster, G.F. Beranek,

Yep, that was one of the bigger tops we rigged down while taking down those 6 trees in that yard, but they were all rigged down in that fashion.

The top we removed in that video was from a tree that was located less than one inch from the edge of the roof. (The roof had already been damaged due to wind movement of the tree, but we identified it and took pictures of that damage before working the tree. We wanted the homeowner to know about the damage before we ended up being blamed for it.) We wanted to avoid any movement in the tree we were working, due to possible further roof damage. The neighboring tree was about a foot from roof edge....so we figured we had room for a little quaking action there.

It was a perfect job. No damage to any property or person.

Joel
 
My son and I talked about this situation for a bit over the weekend.

He was quick to point out that pulling a heavy arborist block through a tight crotch is very difficult. He's right. The CMI 3/4" block is extremely difficult to pull into a tree. The added weight of the larger block makes for hard work. It's not easy to find a crotch in a Green Ash that will allow for passage of the Rig and Ring, but if you happen to have an open crotch to work with, this is a great tool for this job. Set the Rig and Ring high into the tree. Now you can repeatedly raise and lower a heavier block a whole lot easier.

If you don't have room for the Rig and Ring to pass, always follow the block up with a small tag line for removal when the job is done. I use a piece of 7mm tech cord. The block will not come down on its own, due to the friction on the rope in the crotch.

I generally lower the block with each new tip tie. This is because the excessive amount of rope needed, when leaving the block high in the tree, can get to be a real job to manage. Lower the block after each limb is removed. Tip tie the next limb and then raise the block again. This method requires only about 1/2 as much rope. It's a safety and convenience thing. There's no rope left lying around on the ground for people and branches to get tangled in.

Joel
 
Joel- seems like that method would require almost as much rope in play, and require raising and lowering the block over and over? I must not be thinking about it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BeaverMonkey,

I'll try to explain, but it would be far easier to do with a single picture.

A port-a-wrap is attached to the base of the tree to be removed. This port-a-wrap's only purpose is to secure a block high in the tree. It uses a dedicated length of rigging rope for this purpose.

A second port-a-wrap is used to manage the rigging duties. This port-a-wrap carries the rigging rope that will be used to control the limbs that are being removed.

If not for the block being lowered after each limb is taken off, you'd have a run of rigging rope running up the tree, through the block, then back down to the ground. Now you'll have to shoot that rigging rope over the next limb to be removed, which will require a third leg of rope. But in order to tie a running bowline from the ground, you'll need to also have a forth leg of rope in the system. If the block is set at 80 feet, you'll need about 320 feet of rope in the system.

Now let's look at lowering the block after a limb is removed. Shoot a running bowline over the next limb to be removed and then raise the block back into the tree. You'll only need 80 feet of rigging rope to make it to the top, and a short additional length to reach the end of the branch you've attached to........maybe a total of 110 feet of rigging rope. And the nice thing is that all of the rope is in the tree. No rope left lying on the ground for branches and feet to get tangled in.

Hope this helps.

Joel
 
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