ianwhite
TreeHouser
What are your thoughts on if you would have made a bore cut then set the release strap to be triggered remotely (via skid steer)?
Hollow tree topping - barber chair
- Thread starter pantheraba
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sotc
Dormant hero!!
Gary, watching that on the big screen, looks like a lot of pulling was going on. do you have any hing pictures?
Bodean
Cali dreamer
A bigger notch or more back cut, either way, less hinge...especially on pull trees.
If I found brown cubicle rot in the center with good rind, so be it......It wasn't like you were falling it.....more like prepping for a big pull.
If I found brown cubicle rot in the center with good rind, so be it......It wasn't like you were falling it.....more like prepping for a big pull.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
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- #29
Willie...At the end there was a big pull. The rope was barely tight when I went up. I wish he had barely tugged it when I gave the word to pull...it might have broken over at the face cut. But he laid into the pull when it started going over and that contributed to the rip, I feel sure...he wanted to be sure it couldn't rotate towards the wires and used the skidsteer power to have his way. Ended up working out OK. I went back today to look at the wood but it is a jumbled up mess of logs now...scattered, smother and fried. I know there was still a good chunk of hinge on that left, downhill side. I started my cut to set up the hinge on the uphill/wire side and was sweeping around to the left/downhill side when the opening started....maybe 2/3 around the tree when I quit cutting. So there was a good bit of wood still holding that left side...which I am sure contributed to the rip. If I had another tree for a good TIP so I could work position without lanyarding to the oak I was cutting I would have been comfortable finishing a quick back cut...that I think would have made the top do what I wanted.
The skidsteer was hooked up in case I needed to bail out...that part we planned right.
Ian...a deeper face cut and a bore cut with remote trip might have worked. I understand the concept but have only tried that on some smaller trees...not ready to go big with that yet. I am still not sure how to factor in the missing core of the spar...not sure how much to bore and how much trigger to leave at the back. I imagine doing more of that type of felling would develop a better feel for me...but I don't have it yet.
Faced with that tree again and seeing what happened with this one...I would probably take the time to bomb a mess of big limbs off and reduce the weight of the lean. But it looked like a good chance to try to save all that work...it has been pretty hot here this summer...so I decided to give it a go.
Got an interesting video out of it anyway.
The skidsteer was hooked up in case I needed to bail out...that part we planned right.
Ian...a deeper face cut and a bore cut with remote trip might have worked. I understand the concept but have only tried that on some smaller trees...not ready to go big with that yet. I am still not sure how to factor in the missing core of the spar...not sure how much to bore and how much trigger to leave at the back. I imagine doing more of that type of felling would develop a better feel for me...but I don't have it yet.
Faced with that tree again and seeing what happened with this one...I would probably take the time to bomb a mess of big limbs off and reduce the weight of the lean. But it looked like a good chance to try to save all that work...it has been pretty hot here this summer...so I decided to give it a go.
Got an interesting video out of it anyway.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
exactly... GREAT video.. well worth saving all that sweat!!!
Pulling big tops with equipment is a whole different animal than falling trees. One issue is when on the ground to pretension the faller can have one hand on the pul line and motion for more or less pull, while seeing how the tree responds to the desired lamount of force. You can;t feel the line for tension when you;re in the tree.... SO its harder to judge how much to pretension the line from the tree.
I have been crossed up by too much pre-tension, had the top go early, before I was in my desired final position. It's a helpless feeling, all tied in and no where to go.. JUST HOPING that the top doesn;t split or get hung up and come back at me, or some deadwood comes down on me, or I get bounced out of the spikes and drop the saw etc.. Lots of bad stuff can happen taking big tops. Best to have the hinge preset, the saw clipped, and body braced with both hands, and well balanced on two well set spikes, ready for the ride, before calling for the pull. In the bucket just go to where the limb can't and call for the pull, or sometimes have the groundy let some line out to trip the rigging.
Using the skid steer to MAKE 100% SURE the top wouldn;t get the wires was a good call IMO.. Obviously I wasn;t therer and video has limitations, but it seemed to me like the skid steer op was experiened and trustworthy.. One you were out of there he made sure it came to the lay, but didn;t hit the gas too hard... DOing tree work with a skilled skid op that you can trust to know what you want and need is a true pleasure..
I thought the notch looked a little small at first too. BBC can be casued by a small notch, not deep enough into the tree, which probabaly contributed to the split here, but the rot certainly had a lot to do with it too. If the line wasn't pretensioned, then the rot must have caused the back cut to open up a bit early, which then casued you to bail...
Personally I like the method you used, and like to study it and BBC etc , things which are normally considered hazardous and only happen accidentally, to see if they could be used intentionally and controlled when they offer some benefit... I have toyed wityh the idea of just making a back cut and letting the skid op rip the tre down with a nice high pull line... that's when the lay went off due to twist in the grain... And to reinterate what others have said, one sure way to prevent the rip would be to strap up above and below the cut.. Well worth the piece of mind and is easily done with a short piece of 1/2" line taking 5 or 6 waps..
Pulling big tops with equipment is a whole different animal than falling trees. One issue is when on the ground to pretension the faller can have one hand on the pul line and motion for more or less pull, while seeing how the tree responds to the desired lamount of force. You can;t feel the line for tension when you;re in the tree.... SO its harder to judge how much to pretension the line from the tree.
I have been crossed up by too much pre-tension, had the top go early, before I was in my desired final position. It's a helpless feeling, all tied in and no where to go.. JUST HOPING that the top doesn;t split or get hung up and come back at me, or some deadwood comes down on me, or I get bounced out of the spikes and drop the saw etc.. Lots of bad stuff can happen taking big tops. Best to have the hinge preset, the saw clipped, and body braced with both hands, and well balanced on two well set spikes, ready for the ride, before calling for the pull. In the bucket just go to where the limb can't and call for the pull, or sometimes have the groundy let some line out to trip the rigging.
Using the skid steer to MAKE 100% SURE the top wouldn;t get the wires was a good call IMO.. Obviously I wasn;t therer and video has limitations, but it seemed to me like the skid steer op was experiened and trustworthy.. One you were out of there he made sure it came to the lay, but didn;t hit the gas too hard... DOing tree work with a skilled skid op that you can trust to know what you want and need is a true pleasure..
I thought the notch looked a little small at first too. BBC can be casued by a small notch, not deep enough into the tree, which probabaly contributed to the split here, but the rot certainly had a lot to do with it too. If the line wasn't pretensioned, then the rot must have caused the back cut to open up a bit early, which then casued you to bail...
Personally I like the method you used, and like to study it and BBC etc , things which are normally considered hazardous and only happen accidentally, to see if they could be used intentionally and controlled when they offer some benefit... I have toyed wityh the idea of just making a back cut and letting the skid op rip the tre down with a nice high pull line... that's when the lay went off due to twist in the grain... And to reinterate what others have said, one sure way to prevent the rip would be to strap up above and below the cut.. Well worth the piece of mind and is easily done with a short piece of 1/2" line taking 5 or 6 waps..
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #31
You are right about the skidsteer operator...lots of experience with it...uses it to take big trees on his own pretty often. He has a good head for dealing with danger and has god common sense about things. We have worked some tricky diving situations doing commercial work and he runs our dive team; so he is no stranger to trying situations.
Good input, Murphy...thanks for giving folks things to think about.
Good input, Murphy...thanks for giving folks things to think about.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
Glad your ok Gary.
When cutting the face you say you backed away due to the hollow. In the past I have found hollow trees to act a lot like a tree that you have bored out the hinge. The edges can still have a fair amount of holding properties.
Easy to say from here though. You were on the job and the tree down and everyone home.
It's all good.
When cutting the face you say you backed away due to the hollow. In the past I have found hollow trees to act a lot like a tree that you have bored out the hinge. The edges can still have a fair amount of holding properties.
Easy to say from here though. You were on the job and the tree down and everyone home.
It's all good.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
Glad it all worked out in the end and you're okay Gary. Good thinking to tie your saw off and leave it.
Bodean
Cali dreamer
Gary....Just another thought. One should generally set up the off side of the back cut first.
Starting the backcut on your side first started the kerf to open and forced you to either chase the cut or bail early leaving a thick hinge.
Also if the wires were on your left , one shouldn't leave that side of the tree connected til last....meaning the off side.
Tell me if I'm talking out of my rear.
Starting the backcut on your side first started the kerf to open and forced you to either chase the cut or bail early leaving a thick hinge.
Also if the wires were on your left , one shouldn't leave that side of the tree connected til last....meaning the off side.
Tell me if I'm talking out of my rear.
Typo, sorry.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
That would be a cool circus trick!
Raj
TreeHouser
Ace Ventura - Ass Talking Scene (HD720p): http://youtu.be/aJgWq_kSR9w
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
Thanks, Gary. Between "spidey sense" and "mission mode," your subconscious mind is taking REALLY good care of you!
To Grendel's point, do you think a central lanyard clip-in would have helped in this particular case? (I know it would have been WAY better than being clipped in hip-to-hip, but it would have still been a violent, handsaw-your-way-out moment, eh?)
pantheraba
More biners!!!
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- #39
Deva...you are talking out of the proper orifice. I'll get back to you when I have time to craft a respondez. Headed to a BBQ now.
ianwhite
TreeHouser
Maybe an extra ring on the bridge for a choked lanyard then another for climb line? Or instead of messing with an extra ring always being on the bridge, throw a revolver on there for this short sketchy situation?
Just a thought. May not be a good one... but a thought none the less.....hmmmmm.......
Just a thought. May not be a good one... but a thought none the less.....hmmmmm.......
Grendel
TreeHouser
Nothing would have helped once the split began to propagate. Retreat was his only option.
Chain binders might have helped, but I'd speculate that even heavy duty ratchet straps would have stretched and slid down with the split, if not blowing apart all together.
Chain binders might have helped, but I'd speculate that even heavy duty ratchet straps would have stretched and slid down with the split, if not blowing apart all together.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
wratchet straps go 10,000 easy... if therer is any question take an extra wrap and trust your life with it..
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #43
Deva...here is what I did.
Face cut; started sweeping back cut at point A...this was to keep the tree from hanging on the right side near the power lines.
Got to point B and saw kerf open a little...so the wood at point A and all of B was the hinge. Bailed to other tree. Had skid steer pull.
Does that make sense?
Face cut; started sweeping back cut at point A...this was to keep the tree from hanging on the right side near the power lines.
Got to point B and saw kerf open a little...so the wood at point A and all of B was the hinge. Bailed to other tree. Had skid steer pull.
Does that make sense?
Attachments
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
Nice diagram, Gary. That helps a lot!
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
ballsy!!!!
Bodean
Cali dreamer
That's kinda what I thought. Great graphic Gary.
Wow, you sure made the right decision to get out of there before it was too late.
In my limited experience I would have taken more bits off first but I can understand the heat thing and the desire to get it done, I also would have cut the face more normal size factoring the hollow like a gutted face after having reduced the top weight more.
But, the hollow was the joker, things start to change when you can't fully rely on an intact hinge. A bored face in a solid tree is different, at least then you know you can rely on sound fibre, a hollow starts to throw up all kinds of variables.
IN the end though, your keen sense of situational awareness saved your ass! And I wasn't there!
I sort of did that once, I was cutting a straight up and down dead limb out of a tree, I had to salami cut it, I disconnected my lanyard before the cut because I didn't know how quick it would go. It went quick!!! As it went down a small side branch knocked me on the noggin, dislodged my feet and I went away off on a big swing, I had a nice high TIP so the swing was fine. If I had kept my lanyard on it might have broke my neck...
In my limited experience I would have taken more bits off first but I can understand the heat thing and the desire to get it done, I also would have cut the face more normal size factoring the hollow like a gutted face after having reduced the top weight more.
But, the hollow was the joker, things start to change when you can't fully rely on an intact hinge. A bored face in a solid tree is different, at least then you know you can rely on sound fibre, a hollow starts to throw up all kinds of variables.
IN the end though, your keen sense of situational awareness saved your ass! And I wasn't there!
I sort of did that once, I was cutting a straight up and down dead limb out of a tree, I had to salami cut it, I disconnected my lanyard before the cut because I didn't know how quick it would go. It went quick!!! As it went down a small side branch knocked me on the noggin, dislodged my feet and I went away off on a big swing, I had a nice high TIP so the swing was fine. If I had kept my lanyard on it might have broke my neck...
ianwhite
TreeHouser
I've always used just wratchet straps. Most of you guys use chains as binders?
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Both... depends on the situation... and depends what I have handy... Usually keep both on the trailer. Bigger trees, often the chains come out.
