Friction Savers???

[Porkbrick]

that is fantastic! i love learning new tricks.

 

[simplypete]

I don't think a friction saver could be incorporated into this technique though.

 

[gf beranek]

I tried using them for a couple years but went back to natural crotches simply because the lack of any friction whatsoever would allow my rope to twist and kink easier. Having a bit of friction at both ends helps keep the rope from twisting, it also reduces the load on your friction hitch and allows it to work smoother. Of course that's just my opinion, people who climb on pulley setups will disagree with me and ignore the issues. I do use a basic homemade one on pines, usually something with a steel screw link on one end and a steel locking carabiner on the other.

Right as usual, Brian.

 

[Ax-Man]

I use a static false crotch set from the ground fairly often with a dedicated 5/8 stable braid line that has a spliced eye for the block. I may be using it less now that the wraptor is on hand.


As for setting a friction savor from the ground, I have a question. Do most of you guys have a spliced eye on your throw line or do you attach the bag with a hitch? I never set the friction saver right away because it drives me nuts having to untie the throw bag. What is the trick for fast throw bag removal?

I have a hard time explaining stuff like this but what I do is tie a regular bowline in the end of the throwline with a loop big enough for the throwbag to pass through it . Run the loop through the ring, put the weight through the loop and pull the throwline back. This will almost cause a girth hitch but if the bottom of the loop is at the bottom of the ring it will not girth hitch. Clear as mud. Works good and there is no knot tying. I can get a pic.

Everyone who fiddles around with my throwball ends up girth hitching it which drives me nuts.

On the subject of FS's . I also use one whenever I can climbing the tree and then installing the FS. The one I use the most is a biner /pulley combo with a spliced eye that is also adjustable. I can't splice so I used a almost like new split tail and added the hardware. I have found this combo to be the easiest to retrieve. The biner slides through a crotch easier than any of ring type FS I have used. Each type of FS's have their pro's and con's.

Crotch selection is key to being able to install a FS from the ground or being able to retrieve it from the ground. I retreive the FS while I am still in the tree so if it does get stuck I don't have reclimb the entire tree and also reduce and almost eliminate the wrap around effect on a lower limb from a falling FS.

 

[Bermy]

I install my FS very similarly to Holmen...with the exception that I pass the line through the big ring first, reattach the bag, throw it up, (FS is still on the ground) isolate, pass the line through the small ring, reattach the bag and then pull the FS up.
Here is a pic of my stitched loop and little biner retrieval setup...

 

[HolmenTree]

I do my install a little different,
but here's a good drawing compliments of Sizzle Chest, years ago.

I believe that's the technique in Tree Climbers Companion. I tried it but found the weight of the rope kept pulling the big ring of the FS backwards over the TIP limb when lowering the throwline/weight back to the ground. Then things really got to be a tangled mess.Also as you pull the rope up to the big ring any little twig can snag it and cause problems. You almost need a 3rd hand for this technique. Just easier to feed the running end of the throwline through the big ring and pull the FS into place.

I rather more often use that method too, Deva. Saves having to find the tail of the throwline to thread through as with the other method...which matters if you use long throwlines like we do.

Why limit yourself to long throwlines B? I keep 3 different length of throwlines each in its own bag, which I keep all 3 neatly stored in a army surplas ammo box roughly 8X10X18". Different height T.I.P. use a different length throwline. Plus if one line becomes a tangled mess then grab the next line bag.
I don't have to look for the running end of the throwline, I just pull it out of the storage bag. Then when I'm ready to feed the line back into the bag I use a Berkley battery powered line retriever [which is kept in the bottom of the ammo box along with spare weight bags].
I used to have a small screw link on the end of my throwlines to ease bag removal but still had to remove the link to use the Berkley line retriever. So it was one or the other, which was to get used to tieing the bag with a slipped anchor hitch. I think I can now tie the anchor hitch faster then screwing and unscrewing the link.

Here it is photographed with phone out of art and science of practical rigging. I have used it with a regular bowline. I should use the one pictured. Looks like it could take a bit more abuse.

Thanks Pete for posting that, saves me having to draw it and posting it on here.
I tie the same loop as the 2nd photo shows. I have saved alot of climbing over the years with that technique. I got the same book at home. Its a workbook I got when I took a ArborMaster course about 10 yrs ago.

 

[HolmenTree]

I install my FS very similarly to Holmen...with the exception that I pass the line through the big ring first, reattach the bag, throw it up, (FS is still on the ground) isolate, pass the line through the small ring, reattach the bag and then pull the FS up.
Here is a pic of my stitched loop and little biner retrieval setup...

Thanks for the tip Fiona, I'll have to give it a try when I get back to work.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

does the leather burn if you run the rope?

I haven't rigged much with it. Most rigging is on take downs, w/o a FS. Some add'l friction helps me, as I don't rig big pieces much. That allow a lot of leather clad gloves without trunk wraps or POW. Bigger stuff gets a double braid, so I use a block. I don't know if a double braid would be such a good idea with a cambium saver, though, the DB double have to wrap around the POW.

That being said, the leather CS is probably 3/16" of heavy duty leather which gets polished up after a little use. I wouldn't worry about it getting burned. They're really cheap, too, around $18. The biggest problem is that they need a clip-in loop, which can be added. A snug zip-tie to clip through, or a short piece of accessory cord tied snugly, with another small loop for a 'biner.

By no means is a leather CS a full-on replacement for a block, but for certain situations, like setting from the ground into a pitchy pine without the need to isolate, a la an SRT line, its another tool in the tool box. Easy to use the one for climbing and rigging with a decent bend radius, unlike a RR FS would have for rigging.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Pete, as you said, it looks a bit tougher. We use that "jacked bowline" or "double hole bowline" for hard pulls. It unties with ease. Couldn't say about the 'efficiency' being better, but I doubt (from my armchair) that its worse.

 

[bonner1040]

Pete,

I like the false crotch picture that is cool, I don't understand the difference between the bowline pictured and a standard double bowline though...

As far as rigging with the FS I was thinking about trim jobs where you only remove a single lead or something and where you wouldn't want to climb to set a block.

 

[FJR]

I have a hard time explaining stuff like this but what I do is tie a regular bowline in the end of the throwline with a loop big enough for the throwbag to pass through it . Run the loop through the ring, put the weight through the loop and pull the throwline back. This will almost cause a girth hitch but if the bottom of the loop is at the bottom of the ring it will not girth hitch. Clear as mud. Works good and there is no knot tying. I can get a pic.

Thanks Larry. A pic would be great, I will definitely try it out.

 

[stig]

Fiona, your way is the same as how we do it.
And it'll work on any length of throwline.

You do know that ropes can be bought with a spliced eye in the end, don't you?

Saves you the trouble of stitching in that special Bermuda loop at the end

I don't like that kind of biner for retieval. When yours manage to catch the big ring when going through, neither will you.

 

[Bermy]

Point taken about the biner Stig. When that day comes you'll hear the aaaaarrrrghhhh all the way from Tassie! To be fair though, I had a smaller biner but I lost it, that one was too small to fit over a ring, but big enough to still engage the small ring.

Errmm, yes, I have heard about the magic spliced eye... In the absence of having a spliced eye, a few pennies worth of webbing and a needle and thread make for a rope easy to pull past twigs and obstructions.
With a bit of application I could splice my own eyes, used to do it for all the halyards on our boat...10 in all. Lazy might be the operative word for the present.

 

[canadiantreeman]

I do my install a little different,
but here's a good drawing compliments of Sizzle Chest, years ago.

Do you guys find that sometimes the system gets pulled out of place while setting the line thru the big ring?

I had a few very frustrating events doing as Deva very deftly illustrated so I gave up and now use the same method as Willard.

 

[canadiantreeman]

I don't like that kind of biner for retieval. When yours manage to catch the big ring when going through, neither will you.

Haha! That happened to me once and I about lost my noodle. It was in a tree I'd spent 6 hrs in without a break and I was dog tired. Big spreading Norway maple. After I always made sure the large end of the biner was facing down the rope, towards the splice, and have never had it happen again. That said, pulling my rope out the other way was never a problem until it was a problem. And it sucked bigtime.

 

[pigwot]

FJR,
I use a large needle to splice an eye in Zing-it (locked mobius brummel)and just girth hitch it on the ring of the throwball (pass spliced eye through ring, place bag through eye and tighten up)
It breaks loose easily and no more knots...

 

[HolmenTree]

FJR,
I use a large needle to splice an eye in Zing-it (locked mobius brummel)and just girth hitch it on the ring of the throwball (pass spliced eye through ring, place bag through eye and tighten up)
It breaks loose easily and no more knots...

It wouldn't work for me Patrick. A spliced eye on my Zing-it wouldn't pass through my battery powered throwline retreiver, max diameter for the retreiver is 2.2mm.
I hate the time wasted feeding a hundred or a couple hundred feet of throwline into it's storage bag by hand, I could tie many knots in that time.
Try an anchor hitch with a slip sometime.

 

[pantheraba]

For throwbag attachment I tie what I think of as a one over one taut line hitch finished with a quick release.

Put throw line thru bag ring
bring line down to cross standing end
make 1 wrap below cross point
continue direction of wrap and make 1 wrap above point where lines cross
tuck a bight under the line that diagonally goes over the cross point
that bight is your quick release.

Or you can think of it as a clove hitch with a slipped quick release. It is important to make the first wrap on the "downstream" side of the crossover point so that when you pull the quick release it all comes off without giving you an overhand knot around the ring.

I have never had it come loose prematurely and it always releases without leaving a pesky knot.

That is also how I tie the throw line to the spliced eye in my climbing line to pull the climb line up thru the TIP.

 

[bonner1040]

I just tie a slippery figure eight. line through ring, twist, bight wraps around and tightens easy peasy. never had a problem even once. infact ive broken a few throwlines without the knot slipping.

 

[sotc]

Ive had it come loose twice I think but thats over a decade, I still tie the slipped 8

 

[Ax-Man]

FJR, Nice weather were having today . I was almost hoping we would get by without any snow this year.

Here are some pics of what I was talking about. The third one is the way I like to fasten it to the throwball. The action of the ball might be a little different than a knot but there isn't that much difference. That loop is a little small for that bag because my 12 oz. broke the last time I was using it. One of those pics shows the girth hitch on top of the ring if you were to slid the throwline past the bottom of the ring, either way it works.The girth hitch takes a little more fussing with to get it off of the throwball.

The slipped versions of a termination knot that some of the guys are talking about will also work.I dunno, I myself never was thrilled with using them. Untying knots just isn't my thing.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Burnham]

That's my method as well, Larry. I only untie the loop if I have to pull the cord through some tight fork or other mess.

 

[Koala]

Thanx for the pics Ax-Man. I've always attached the bag with a hitch, I'll try that for sure.

 

[FJR]

Thanks Larry I will give that a go!