woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Some crane operators don't have a problem with bouncing picks when the reach is long and too heavy to lift safely, but wow, ones that big?
French Cedar Removal
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Jed
TreeHouser
Dang! Them Frogs is fixin' ta get themselfs kilt!
Thanks for posting the vid. Amazing to see how differently other folks will tackle something. Whole lotta double footlocking goin on for a removal.
Was there a set of spurs to be seen in the whole vid?
Staggering to think that they could have had an experienced guy just bust the thing in half and then fall the stob, and everyone would have gone home a whole lot safer.
Thanks for posting the vid. Amazing to see how differently other folks will tackle something. Whole lotta double footlocking goin on for a removal.
Was there a set of spurs to be seen in the whole vid?Staggering to think that they could have had an experienced guy just bust the thing in half and then fall the stob, and everyone would have gone home a whole lot safer.
I saw spikes...I also saw no eye protection at the end, the guy with the 880...and then the guy banging in the wedge had no helmet, ear, eye protection and looked like he was in the kickback zone of the guy who was still cutting...if that was a training situation then that's really bad form!
Some of those butts really kicked up when they let go...scary!
But, they were all alive and unwounded at the end...
Some of those butts really kicked up when they let go...scary!
But, they were all alive and unwounded at the end...
Bull, Jed !.
It was not about getting a tree down the cheapest way.
It was a wonderful teaching opportunity that was screwed up by a bunch of incompetent teachers.
Of which we have plenty here BTW.
They don't get much joy from my apprentices, at the forestry school.
as for sideloading chains, those things are strong. We do it a lot when we pull hangers down to get them to rotate.
Never busted a chain yet.
I didn't see anything in the video to make me worry about the hardware.
If there had been a qualified instructor at the scene, that tree would have been a fantastic teaching opportunity.
Just let your imagination dwell on what a guy like Burnham could have had those students take home!!
Burnham
Woods walker
I'd prefer to see that hook rotated 180 degrees, to keep the load completly off the gate....but I wouldn't worry about the chain itself.
Jack
Treehouser
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I'm not worried about "sideloading chains", either. I was wondering about the load on the hook. I know it's a 'safety-hook' but the pull looks to be directly on the weakest point. So, Stig, are you saying it's OK?
That's exactly what I was thinking ... thanks, B!
Burnham
Woods walker
I think we posted about the same time, Jack...see my reply above...I'm with you on that one.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I disagree on the side loading of the chain connectors being ok any way. We use the same hardware with cable often when doing crane picks. There isn't all that much possibility of it breaking when pulling against the gate, the whole lever swings including the ring, but when setting them, it only takes an instant to do it so that the possibility is even less. The little catch that holds it closed until you push on it, is the weakest part. Better to teach the strongest/safest way possible, imo.
Burnham
Woods walker
True, Jay.
All in all, there were far worse mistakes made, but Jay's right, do it the best way, especially in a teaching scenario.
All in all, there were far worse mistakes made, but Jay's right, do it the best way, especially in a teaching scenario.
I don't think it was dangerous, but in a teaching situation, things should be done the right way, every time.
I'm still thinking about how much fun it would be to be able to do a workshop for apprentices on a tree like that.
One of the best things about teaching is that one gets the opportunity to give the students some really lifetime experiences.
My favourite part of having new apprentices is the day they get to fall their first big one.
If you set it up right and don't let them do it untill they can pull it off, it'll be a day they remember forever.
Got one coming up this winter.
Pictures will follow
I'm still thinking about how much fun it would be to be able to do a workshop for apprentices on a tree like that.
One of the best things about teaching is that one gets the opportunity to give the students some really lifetime experiences.
My favourite part of having new apprentices is the day they get to fall their first big one.
If you set it up right and don't let them do it untill they can pull it off, it'll be a day they remember forever.
Got one coming up this winter.
Pictures will follow
Jed
TreeHouser
Stig: Man, it didn't take you long to smell me out on that one.
True enough--I did understand the training element--but like (I think) Jay said: why compromise a young guy's safety (which is assuredly the WORST guy's safety to compromise--it'd be another thing if it were an experienced hand) when one has the leisure to make every single pick with absolute precision?
Do you ever notice that--regardless of the part of the world one is in--the new guys always get gyped on the training thing? It's as if tree guys are the worst possible candidates to train someone properly. It's the exact same thing every time at the company I work for: "O.k. boys, next week we've got this really big huge tree, and we've got an obscene amount of money on it, so lets get the new guys up there and give em' plenty of time to..." Yeah, right... Every single time the foreman will give the kid about twenty-five minutes of fumbling around before he gets impatient.
Yeah, there's not a doubt in my mind that you or Burnham or Jer would be excellent at training the new guys, but let's face it: you guys are far and few between.
True enough--I did understand the training element--but like (I think) Jay said: why compromise a young guy's safety (which is assuredly the WORST guy's safety to compromise--it'd be another thing if it were an experienced hand) when one has the leisure to make every single pick with absolute precision?
Do you ever notice that--regardless of the part of the world one is in--the new guys always get gyped on the training thing? It's as if tree guys are the worst possible candidates to train someone properly. It's the exact same thing every time at the company I work for: "O.k. boys, next week we've got this really big huge tree, and we've got an obscene amount of money on it, so lets get the new guys up there and give em' plenty of time to..."
Yeah, right... Every single time the foreman will give the kid about twenty-five minutes of fumbling around before he gets impatient. Yeah, there's not a doubt in my mind that you or Burnham or Jer would be excellent at training the new guys, but let's face it: you guys are far and few between.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Not so much Jed. The UK for sure has an extremely sophisticated and detailed training industry. My own feelings is that crane dismantles are just about the most dangerous task in aerial treework. Similar in danger to dealing with large windblown hardwoods. It is NOT the situation you EVER put students into, and if you did, you would make sure that every single one of those picks was balanced perfectly. In my opinion, the teachers on that job knew barely more than the students.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
There didn't seem to be much instruction or checking going on, just somebody watching.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
"Hey John, lets take the kids out now and see how they do on a crane job". "They should have picked up enough in the class room by now".
I used to get culinary arts students fresh out of school for the practicum part of their course. You had to retrain them on knife usage so they would not lose a finger(s). Scary
Reminded me a little of that.
I used to get culinary arts students fresh out of school for the practicum part of their course. You had to retrain them on knife usage so they would not lose a finger(s). Scary
Reminded me a little of that.
pete mctree
Treehouser
Your not wrong there Ed. The short distance across the channel seems like an ocean when it comes to comparing training attitudes & methods. I would have been either too scared to watch or hitting the emergency stop button on the rig.
Burnham
Woods walker
I think it's interesting to see that the differences between the UK, and many other parts of the world in how arborist and sawyer training and certification requirements are handled, are somewhat mirrored in the similar dicotomy between US Forest Service requirements, and most private industry doing similar work here in the US.
Many certified trainers here have an elite attitude like if they are at a certain high level you'll be never able to reach...Much more easy and valuable learn from experienced climbers and fellers who are not trainers but simply hard workers. Many certified schools here sucks. Not much willingness to share and really teach.
Many guys who just started working think about moving to UK to work more and make more experience. I don't really know how is the situation there right now but a few years ago I was having the same temptation.
Many guys who just started working think about moving to UK to work more and make more experience. I don't really know how is the situation there right now but a few years ago I was having the same temptation.
Burnham
Woods walker
I'm WAY beyond elite...I'm up there at prima donna level 
.
Though I suppose to be accurate I should say primo uomo when including an Italian in those addressed, no?
.Though I suppose to be accurate I should say primo uomo when including an Italian in those addressed, no?
No, we say prima donna as well.
And I think for a prima donna like you we could make an exception
Only I think that people reaching that "beyond the elite" level are supposed to develop a much more relaxed and detached attitude ( just like you, no? ), not a superhero attitude.
And I think for a prima donna like you we could make an exception
Only I think that people reaching that "beyond the elite" level are supposed to develop a much more relaxed and detached attitude ( just like you, no?
), not a superhero attitude.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Burnham is more of a Don than a primma donna. Maybe a uomo di punta.
Burnham
Woods walker
I am humbled, my friends .
.
Jed
TreeHouser
We need trainers in our company who actually know how to train; not a bunch of dummies who, for insurance reasons, make some poor kid watch a bunch of safety videos, and then, 45 minutes later, shove him out with us handle-bar-mustached, red-neck idiots, where he just gets laughed at and then yelled at alternately.
No Jed.
We need to educate the " handle bar mustached, red neck idiots" to make them see that it is in the best interest of this industry that we all take care of the rookies and teach them how to work smart, safe and fast.
I'm doing my part of that, how about the rest of you?
We need to educate the " handle bar mustached, red neck idiots" to make them see that it is in the best interest of this industry that we all take care of the rookies and teach them how to work smart, safe and fast.
I'm doing my part of that, how about the rest of you?
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Wish I could grow a handle bar mustache.
