Finding/ training/ retaining good employees...

[SouthSoundTree-]

Mick, what do you advise?

Do I rig smaller so that he doesn't have to put the rope in the already-set-up Porta-wrap, as he suggested? We had just finished training for half an hour on the Simply 3:1 technique, btw. I trained him for about 10 minutes, then while I was self-sufficiently working, and had him practice on the bollard on the mini, a safe distance away.

What kind of training do you provide? What kind of responsibility to you hold your employees to? How do you address problems after hands-on training (I'll show you and explain it, then put it in your hands and have you do it)?

For a specific issue, coming into the death/ crush zone/ drop zone, unannounced, what do you do?


I've had plenty of good advice to hire better employees from non-business owners. Why did not think of that?


Mick, honestly, I'm looking for advice from people in the similar situation, not to bicker.

What is your typical job look like?

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

The other kid that walked off the job was 23 and entitled. He used to work for a government subsidized non-profit where making money was of no consequence. I worked for a similar program through AmeriCorps (national volunteer service program) where we had a $750,000 buffer against needing to be self-sustaining.

Previous to that, he paid lots of money to be spoon-fed in college.

He thought it was a democracy, I think.

 

[Mick!]

Truthfully.
Stop having a going about little things like starting the saw the wrong way. The last guy had logging experience yet you nagged him about drop starting! If it starts, that ok. Starter cord is cheap.
Stop being so bloody corporate, you're a one man band, not Apple.
We don't talk about areas of responsibility and the like, it's obvious for the most part and if I have to explain it I just say it.
Ie if they're in the way tell em to get the frig out of it, then drop the branch. You shouldn't be dropping anything heavy without checking it's clear anyway.
Recently you had a guy walk off halfway through the day because he'd had enough of you.
I would see that as my failure not his.
If I was a grunt (and being honest that's all you will be able to get) you would get on my tits with the way you go on about training and responsibilities like it was Starbucks.
Working for me (or you, we have similar sized outfits I reckon) is not an internship at Cal Tec, it's a chance to earn some money, in a low stress environment (usually) in the open air, with the chance of many early finishes
Like the guy in Hawaii said (and he really made some great points) at the moment you want a helper not an employee.
It may sound like I'm having a go, maybe I am.

 

[stig]

Sean, all of the above things would lead to a SEVERE repimand from me.

I tell them that we are working in a job where a bad day at the office doesn't mean somoone took the last coffe and didn't brew a new pot, but that somebody got maimed or worse.
So we don't tolerate safety sloppiness.


I've had the new guy logging smallish stuff on his own for some days.
When he'd been at it one day, I walked through the stand with him and pointed out all that he had done wrong.
Then I let him alone with it for 3 days.
Today, before quitting time, I went and checked again, and to my dismay ( I told him with a grin) I couldn't find a single thing wrong ( Except for speed of course, takes more than a week to get fast).

We tell then right at the interview that we are extremely demanding and if they can't handle that, go somewhere else.
We also tell them that if they stick with us, they'll be way better than their class mates.

That is almost exactly what the new guy, Mathias, was told at the logging school, when they found out he was apprenticed to me.

The toughest guy in the business, but if you make it with him, you'll get really good.

Not a bad rep to have IMO.

This is logging/arbo boot camp for those kids, not summer camp.
If they make it to the other side, they can find a job anywhere on the island with a referral from us, no problem.

If this one makes it, we'll keep him.

Mick, I do things completely different than you, but then I'm training apprentices, not working with someone I picked up at the pub.

 

[Raj]

A great mix of views and ideals on here.

 

[Mick!]

True Stig, and therein lies the rub, you are training apprentices. With a view to officially recognized qualifications, experience and a career.
I (and Sean) are just trying to get the job done as easily and lucratively as possible.
I offer nothing but a wage and some skills picked up on the way.

 

[squisher]

The way I trained/worked with everyday, and retained a employee who operated at a very high level was this.

1. I paid well, we all work for money. Bottom line.

2. Yes I was the captain of the ship and made the big decisions. BUT! I worked always as a equal. Never slinking off to make 'important' phone calls while the final clean-up was happening. Never not pulling/lifting/moving/cutting my share of the work load. I created a team where my guy didn't have to worry about speaking his mind as an equal ever. Respect is earned not given and that goes both ways. I would never work in an environment where I was 'less than' the boss. And I would never act that way towards someone I hired.

3. Kind of relates to number one. 40hrs or more every week. If you can't employ someone full time forget about having a fantastic employee.

Employees will screw things up sometimes, and so will the employer. It's the nature of life.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I gave Gary all the work he could do either with or without supervision.
I was giving his fiance work, time to time, too.

I was hiring on a third, wanting to train the guy to be a real climber, more that what he learned from his old cowboy boss free climber, and some seminars then OJT in 80' max trees.

I realized that Gary was very well matched in a quick and dirty, brush monkey, low-safety environment like where he worked with the tweakers. There, here was sorta a foreman (company has had climber fall off a spar, god knows how many chainsaw cuts, Gary was crushed between the mini-x and dump truck enough to bend steel with his body).

If I have the crew, I can advertise and get a lot more work, but need to make a size leap to have a full time climber and full time groundies, which I'm not ready for, at this point. Spur climbers are easy to come by around here, along with tweakers. There are a lot of good climbers around here, and decent as well. Many have their names on the side of their trucks, already or work for a reputable company.

What all this tumbling around in my head gets me is...

1. Gary was the wrong match, and I kept giving him more opportunities because he was working hard, showing improvement, and really working hard to get his life together.

2. I'm not Social Services. I pay taxes into Social Services.

3. Willie said, IIRC, Slow to hire, fast to fire.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Oh, ya, the birthplace of grunge music is notoriously bad for its labor pool. My friend, who husband is a contractor, reminded me of this.

My best employees have been midwesterners, and college-educated, like myself. I really could go about forever without lunchtime dialogue including "aint got no...". Culture clash?
Problem with the local post-college pool that they might decide to take all the training, and go to Thailand for 6 months, 3 months in. No roots, no need to support kids. Suddenly, they feel like they're rich, and go on a partying binge. You can buy a lot of grass and beer when you work full-time, and you're used to the college lifestyle.

 

[Chris E]

I don't mean to derail but I find managing customers a greater challenge, but then again when you have issues with workers on top of that it can really put you under some heavy pressure.

Sean you mentioned you're not in a position for full time climbers and groundies at this point, could you assemble a crew and split it with someone else in a similar position? Each market is so different this may sound outlandish but over here it wouldn't be that hard to arrange, many groundies/climbers here are locked in to work with a particular crew for set days each week. There's also a handful of guys that run a crew 3 days a week which leaves the crew available every other day. You may not have these sorts of options where you operate...

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I couldn't have someone else climb FT, and have a FT groundie or two, and me, plus a mini and for-hire grapple truck. If I did things the hard way, I could have that many people.




Funny, I find customer's easy to deal with, by and large. Maybe thread-worthy, as I'm sure you're fighting the same battles as everyone else. One of my favorite customer tricks is, "Do you by chance have some coffee on?"
Making a cup of coffee is usually time enough for them to leave and us to get cracking. I have an insulated thermos bottle of coffee.


Most local tree work is reasonably easy, too, frankly, with a good plan. Its tiring, but mostly follow the same basic procedure, not predicting the future of some inexplicable thing. Set a good TIP, climb, make good cuts, rig as needed/ free drop without smashing stuff, come down. If its a removal, fell what's left, or dump it whole in the first place. Big spreading/ leaning trees are not as common as straight up ones, but they're my favorite. Firs are sorta run of the mill, usually.

Groundwork doesn't seem like rocket science, by and large, especially when spoon-fed to them. I bet money I could teach Dahlia to tie a clove hitch. Set the POW, no. Maybe when she's four years old, or if I get one of those ABR slings that negate the need for a simple cow hitch or timber hitch. I bet I could teach her a timber hitch, too.





You can put a lot of extra effort in to get the same work done, especially without a plan or working efficiently.




How do you network, Chris? I'm open to the idea, but don't know where I'd start, then when a storm hits...




I subbed a climber and his groundie for some big maple removals.
I told him to rig over the yew. He kept free-dropping stuff, even through he's paid by the day.
I told him rig over the yew, its the most important thing to the HO.
"Well I was just dropping stuff that I could".
I said rig over the yew, you're hitting the yew.
WTF?

Most people around here have no idea what a portawrap is, or a block, or a mini, or a Wraptor, or lifting limbs, or how to tie a bowline...

I don't really want to teach my competition. I wouldn't mind sharing workers with others if it were not this way. I think any advanced crews around here have been in business for a while, and not in need.

Holy moly do we have a lot of tree crews around here. Probably at least 15 certified arborists in the private sector for maybe 100,000 people, locally. People tell me regularly that Olympia has a lot of tree crews. Logging goes down, "tree service" goes up. They can take on a lot of the easy, smaller trees, and open dropzone trees without anything but their flipline and spurs, as illegal as it is.

It would be nice if there was a watering hole for tree workers. That would be an easy networking idea.

 

[Chris E]

*Funny, I find customer's easy to deal with, by and large.

*How do you network, Chris? I'm open to the idea

*Yeah by and large they are fine, but, still figuring out the more subtle aspects of the game when it comes to protecting my interests I suppose.

* I think a lot of it has to do with being a former employee/helper myself, working for outfits that are very similar to what I now operate (small/manual labour based). We have always shared contacts- partly as doing this ensures the freelance workers will be available in the long term and not need to look for a full time gig. Their levels of motivation are also very high as they know that's required to get the work, not here for a picnic, lets smash it out and be home again. Once you can tap into any sort of network it naturally grows, I've never felt the need yet but the technical college (arb dept) could also be a good source of workers- once again you may not have that option open.

 

[treesandsurf]

If your employee or helper or whatever you want to call that person walks off or quits, he is essentially firing you as the boss. You just got fired and you should take it that way.

If your system is setup in a way in which you cannot find the perfect person, the problem is the system not the people you're finding. AT the end of the day, you can keep banging your head against the wall, keep posting these threads, keep making excuses about the industry and the stupidity of people and on and on and on; what they amount to is an unwillingness to look at yourself honestly and to make a change. At the end of the day it's really your problem, and you will live with it for as long as you have to until you make a change. That's all there is to it.

jp

 

[Levi]

Well said.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Thank you for your input, Jon. Not knowing you, I'd guess that you're probably a pretty smart guy to have built what you have.

So how do you deal with training, safety infractions, disciplinary issues?

Where is the best source of applicants?

What do you do when people who have a lot less skill and safety-awareness don't want to follow the rules or listen to training?




Do you let people use your spider-lift the way they want, or the way you want? Do you let others run your safety program? I can't imagine that is the case. You have huge trees that would crush houses. How do you manage that risk so that its potentially-dangerous but goes to plan, not really-dangerous?




I might just focus on jobs were I don't have to rely on others having technical skills, and have a couple brush monkeys that I don't invest in training much more than the minimum. A McJob. Most big trees around here are just a bigger elephant to eat. I can pass on jobs that require a skilled crew, such as crane work that has a limited drop zone, or complex rigging. I can bang out self-lowered stuff, all day long, if I can set the right rigging.

I do expect too much from people, after in-depth training, like they will retain it with paid, OJT practice. Its not a matter of watch this, now do it.




Honestly, getting into tree work full-time was not my original plan, but life and a mortgage turned out that way. I do think a lot about going into a more technical field, with high barriers to entry, likely in the medical field.





BTW, when I say 'rocket science', I literally mean dozens of Ph.D.s working for years in a concerted way.

Tree work is skilled work, but its able to be picked up on by self-study and self-teaching due to the available resources.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Sorry for the rants in the thread taking away from more productive parts.

 

[squisher]

It's all good Sean. You had to know you're probably going to take some heat in a thread like this. It is hard to get good people but a small outfit like yourself only needs probably one other good person. I have hired and fired people too that are inappropriate for the job. The key is in being able to retain someone when you find a good person and that is hard.

Good thread imo.

 

[treesandsurf]

Yes it's a great thread, probably one of the more challenging aspects of owning any business IMO. Sean if you haven't joined TCIA I would highly recommend. They spend a lot of their energy helping the tree industry from the business side of the coin. They're an incredible resource, really.

I had an idea as I was thinking about you as I sat in traffic today heading to our job site: you might try and write down the 5 most frustrating issues you deal with on a regular basis. Write them in order from most serious (life threatening) up to just simply annoying. At the beginning of the month take the bottom one from the list (most annoying) and bring your guys together and explain to them the issue and tell them why it's really important to you. Then don't bring it up again. Tell yourself you're going to trust your guys to handle whatever the issue is and you're just going to let it go and trust your guys. If the issue pops up which it inevitably might, don't react at all unless you absolutely have to. Wait until the next meeting and bring it up in a way that lets them know your not freaking out but that you really need them to take care of it. This gives the guys responsibility. You are now tasking them and entrusting them to have ownership over taking care of whatever that issue is. Try it out. If it works keep going up the list.

jp

 

[treesandsurf]

Another really important factor is that people will mirror your opinion of them when you're in charge or you're the boss. So if they always feel like they mess up or they're not meeting your expectations: guess what they really start to mirror that in the way they work with you.

If you can practice to build people up while guiding them they will for the most part rise to that image you are developing of them. Each guy, even the most challenging ones, have great traits -- so focus on those and let the other issues improve with time. I know it's easier said than done, but I think you'll start seeing a huge shift if you yourself can work on this.

jp

 

[Mick!]

Ha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who mulls over stuff on here on the way to work.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

 

[Jed]

Or maybe it's just a timing thing, Sean. Maybe you were meant to struggle with this for some time until (or is this sounding too quaint and sentimental) you suddenly found yourself working along-side a guy whom you could easily leave all to himself without the slightest qualm. But I'll grant you that this isn't likely.

I think that one of the problems that we Treehousers can succumb to to a certain extent, is that here, we can easily live in an idealized world. We, for some strange reason are super-passionate about tree work, and are surrounded by similar weirdos. But of course... the working world just isn't like that.

Maybe you could just lay-low until you were able to find someone whose personality were worth investing training in, but who knows? I only saw you briefly at the zipfest thing (did we even meet?) years ago, but I can tell you this... guys like you and Willie who are willing to fight up old-growth pigs for free, are a real rarity. Now FLIPfest... that was pretty cool... even if I was a day late and a buck short.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Long, long, long post. I type quickly. And digress. And I live a long way away from other people, at the moment, not talking to a lot of people in a day. I'm sure you all have dealt with similar things and hopefully have some insight.


I am wanting to join TCIA. Its a matter of choosing what I do/ don't get done in a day, as is... this permit, that maintenance, return this call, that email. Running the business, to me, is closer to rocket science than climbing and cutting, which is very tangible and adhere to laws of physics.


I hands-on train the snot out of the crew, unless they are only an extra set of hands for a storm, and still they get a run-down on protocol and site safety meeting. I want them to be self-sufficient, and do things well, not half-assed, or forget to tell me that the truck seat mechanism is broken, leaving me to find out on the way to wreck a terrible maple, or after spending two hours plywooding the chipper out, then another day back in...oh yeah, when I left them to do ground work recently to bid another storm job, neither one of them thought to tell me that they had trouble with the chipper, in the hours left in the day after I returned.. Several hours of F'ing with the chipper (on my dime), another hour plywooding it out, and off to the regular mechanic who can't get to it until the next week. (water got in the gas and the distributor froze up internally when it sat for a few weeks during no-disposal storm work and holidays).
Avoiding screw-ups like this would help me to focus on things only I can do. They are trained to report to me any damage or problems like this, and put a note on the dashboard, so I can put it on my TO DO list. Is that so hard? I can't fix or replace, or pay them to fix or replace something unless I know about it.

I really can use people not to step on my D*&k.





My number one thing is safety. This is my biggest gripe (see the mostly local, very abridged, I'm sure, local accident list, below). The biggest thing is that I was almost killed my ground crew, second to that, I was almost blinded by my groundie's action, which he did for no good reason, and went outside of his training. Thank god for luck and ppe.



My second biggest gripe is that I spend a LOT of time training them on tools and techniques to do the job safely, efficiently, with less back-breaking labor, etc, with a bunch of not-seeing-the-forest-for-the-trees.

Metaphorical example, people do things akin to banging nails and everything else they see because they were asked to get a hammer. Maybe even banging with the side of the hammer (wrong application in the wrong situation).

Me (over Senas): "Employee's name." (Do I have their attention?)

Employee: Yes, Sean. (I train to look to see if someone is in the middle of something important, such as finger pulling the trigger cutting a part a hanging, rigged piece, or I'm changing over my climbing system, focusing on not falling to my death)

Me: Please get the blue 16 oz hammer (If they are new, "behind the drivers seat in the black tool bag, under the shelf").

Employee goes and gets the hammer and starts banging on things, nails, trees, the ground. Worse, employee comes under the tree, unannounced, and starts banging things.


What does their training tell them to do?

Employee: Sean... (hopefully, as trained, they look up into the tree to see if I might be doing something like obviously focusing on securing myself against falling to my death, changing over life-support systems).

me: Yes, Joe.

Employee: I got the hammer you asked for.

Me: Thanks. Let me shake these hangers free. I'll let you know when its safe to come under. (shake limbs free, check for anything I missed), Come under, please, and hang it on the rigging line.

Employee: Coming under

Me: Thank you

At this point I'm not going to mess with a loose block that I might bobble after asking them to come into the death zone/ drop zone.

Employee: Hammer is on the rigging line. I'm/ All clear.

Me: Thank you.




More real world scenario:

I'll ask them to come under and get the pull line pulled out of the dropzone. I'll getting ready to drop the top.

Groundie will come get the line and start pulling on it, leaning on it AMAP, before I'm even ready to put the face-cut in. Maybe this is a shitty, decayed tree with root rot. They are pulling with an 80' lever. Maybe even the other guy will want to join in. I'm just setting up to tip a 20' top, with a hinge that I'm not even ready to make, which will take 40-50 pounds of force to tip.

What that reminds me of is another real happening, rigging a good- sized piece with a block and POW, I got the groundie #1 set up right, and the other groundie #2, on his own volition, decides to grab the rope (what the *&^% would you say to someone that started shoving their feet onto the chip truck pedals and grabbing the wheel while in traffic, because they 'want to help'?). This could have endangered me if the piece didn't drop, and swung the log back into me, as it was rigged as a pendulum on another spar. Why do I want to "drive"? This was a sub-contract crew, climber and groundie, btw. Mostly, I only have to focus on two worker's safety, me and groundie, plus the HO, Neighbor, Lookie-Lou's.

Like...I see someone hammering, I'm going to run over and help him grab the single-person tool so I can swing the same hammer to help.


Safety and people endangering other people #1




Safety and people endangering themselves #2 (stay out of the crush zone for no reason)
-If the get hurt, they're screwed, and I'm screwed, since I've not got a bunch of paperwork to deal with, my WC rates will rise, I'm out a well-trained employee for some times, and now I'm losing money, getting behind schedule, domino domino domino domino




#3 If you're not sure how to do it safely or well, DON'T, ask. I will train you in the professional way to use this tool (recent example a loopie sling can't be used like a dead-eye sling for a base re-direct so I can stand up a long, drooping limb with an overhead block (aka I'll be under a 40' limb, relying on the rigging being set properly and not failing, while he is way the F out of danger, running the mini)).




#4
People working inefficiently. I"ll tell them I'm going to be ready to pull up the 361 in about 3-5 minutes, please get it ready. Shows up in the tree dull when I have to cut hard leaning, barberchair prone limbs, or just normal cutting. Files are always in the file department of the truck. They are trained to hand-file. They are encouraged to put a stroke or two on the saw when refilling, keeping it razor sharp. That's why they get 5 minutes lead time. They are trained on cutting, saw maintenance, and cut all day themselves. I don't think its that hard to remember to check the saw for sharpness, tension, fuel, maybe take an extra 15 seconds to check the air filter (they're Stihls). 5-10 minutes wasted, while I'm hanging in a saddle, after sending down my top-handle. I could have been working while they touch up/ change the chain, on terra firma.

Seems to me that clear, concise, loud communication (and we have had Senas for years now), and paying attention would have avoided this. Loud, clear, and concise (Like "Welcome to McDonalds (attention getter). Order when you're ready (concise communication (message)..."

"I want #2, #5, etc"
"that's a #2, #5...drive up to the second window" (we are on the same page of the plan, now let's work the plan).

drive up, complete plan, move on to the next one.





And for what its worth, the standing order is "Take care of yourself, eat before you're hungry, drink before your thirsty, take time to stretch your muscles after you're warmed up and throughout the day, let me know if you have an important call to make, and we will find 5 minutes for you. They are on the self-regulated, legal, mini-break system usually. Their choice if we take a straight 15 (or whatever) around 1030 and 230 or we take mini-breaks. Same with lunch, if you want to take 15 instead of 30, fine. If the job allows, and you need an hour for lunch to take care of a personal matter (leave the site to pay a bill/ get lunch/ make a long phone call, fine). You need to leave at 430 for an appointment, and its 430, then go, Just let me know that its 415. I'll pack the truck, double check the site, blah blah on my own.
Often during the day, I'll tell them that I'll be self-sufficient for 5-10 minutes or whatever, go drink, eat, stretch, call, text, smoke, etc.







































The following is something that I ranted in my head about some, but waited to post, so take that in context before the last two posts, Jon's and Jed's.


I'm a big boy, and can take some heat. I welcome your advice.


I used to work with adjudicated-youth in the deeeep wilderness (at times 2-3 days hike from/ to the next water supply in Big Bend National Park, Texas, for example). I used to see a bunch of gang-bangers and gang-banger wannabe's, ADD, ADHD, XYZ, amongst other kids, get trained to live in the backcountry/ wilderness for a month or more, with a bunch of other kids with attitudes and big issues, hold jobs within the group, etc. Some did better, some worse. They all learned a taut-line hitch for their tarp shelters. They learned half-hitches and such for their survival packs (bound up like an extension of the old brown paper parcels with string using P-cord, then threaded with a piece of webbing for straps).

"Hoods in the woods" kids used to make their own backpacks, "survival packs", out of 2 tarps, 30' of cordage, and a 2" seatbelt strap. If their pack fell apart, or they put it down when it was time to hike, the entire group got to do a 'pack drill'. Which is harder, making a 40 pound pack that will stay together all day, or tie/ untie a running bowline?

I've had to send a staff member and kid to get the sherriff down the river, and other kids into the woods (safest place from a bunch of raging kids with paddles and rocks was where nobody knew where they were). Had they found them, people would have ended up in the hospital or worse.

Do I need a similar tragedy (blunt trauma) on my pretty predictable job? I heard about a groundie on the Seattle eastside who was killed by stupid, avoidable shit (climber had a log mostly cut off, but ran out of gas, climber had groundie come into the death zone for the saw for a refill, and the log peeled off, crushing the groundie to death). Stupid friggin' shit! #1 cause of death in tree work: struck-by! Olympia is a much smaller community than Seattle (granted, I heard about the death on TB). I need to maintain the safety, teamwork, production rep, not the dangerous, shit-show rep.


I've had a wilderness kid tell me he was going to 'brick' me in the face when I was asleep (no tents, only tarps, unless we were in backcountry Canada).

If I hear I'm being a dick and need to treat people differently because I expect them to adhere to the law, common sense, and training, so be it. Its a lot less intense that wondering if you will be 'bricked' in the face in your sleep.

No need to sugar-coat. PNW is known for people being Passive-Aggressive. I'm direct with adults, mostly. Doesn't mean I'm right, just expressing my side.





I would bet dollars to doughnuts that I say Please and Thank You far, far more than an average tree boss, and you know logging bosses are far worse. I can only keep that up for so long. Far longer than I will in the future. They will just have to go work for someone else. One local, small company goes through 50 groundies a year and only screams at people (old logger boss who doesn't know what a lowering line is, according to his 40 year friend, my old boss at SPs).






The straw that broke the camel's back for former employee Gary was when I got pissed because he snuck directly under me from the back side of a huge maple sucker stump, 8' across/ ( 90' leaders, half rotten ,and started to try to untie the MS 361 from the rigging line. He was on "stand clear", well out of the dropzone. I had pulled up the 361 to chunk off a log. I didn't hang the lanyard on my harness, rather, left it on the rigging line. I lowered the saw to the ground, climbed down 10', and I was about to pull the the saw back up for the final 361 cut, when I saw him 'hiding' under me. You know how your body and a 2' leaning trunk beneath you blocks a lot of the drop zone, especially directly beneath. What would have happened I simply reached down and started yarding the saw back up, as I was about to do? Could have pulled the chain or dogs into his face, or hands?

What do you do besides fire someone who can't follow safety rules, again and again?

Mostly, since it was Put On Ground Only, he was there to lower and untie some stuff, and in the mean time, he was way out of the dropzone, practicing Simple 3:1 training, and I got him set up to cut firewood (construction company didn't care about wood going, and I was under zero obligation to do anything but make a stump, they will just move it all with their excavators) for his broke sister, with my gear, while I was paying him. I could have had him cleaning the truck. I was trying to help a guy out, again, like so many other times.







Local accidents that I, personally, know of happening in Olympia in the last 8 years,

1 death by electrocution, unknown company, crew bugged out while the guy burned on the line, I hear. hearsay.

1 crushed by machine against truck- my former employee Gary when working for old company.
1 fall from spar to ground
1 nearly cut off thumb (I packed him up to go to the hospital while everyone else stood around arguing with me about giving me glasses (BSI), that could have lead to the guy being eaten by a BC1000, back at work with bandaged hand, so naturally, use your feet (I was the only one who told him NO!!!!!!). Same guy that could barely run a saw was given an MS 660/ 36" bar to limb a felled tree, no chaps, hearing pro, eye pro. He couldn't put the chain back on himself when he threw it. (when I worked for a guy for 2 months when I first got to Olympia)
1 log through occupied nursery wall
1 bad cut to climber from one-handing
all at the same company

One guy riding the failed tree down to the ground, resulting in a broken back.

Partial facial paralysis from a jack-assed move in the truck, resulting in a roll-over. Seems to me likely no seat belts. Was after I left the company after I didn't want to be pushed into the chipper by three hung-over guys charging in with a big top.

The guy who was in my State Parks job previous to me was LifeFlight'ed out after being struck in the head and seizuring by something that 'would have killed anybody else" besides One-Eye Guy (yes, no eye protection)

One eye-Bob lost an eye, no eye pro, logger, small stick.

No-hand Stan was an fluke accident from electrocution (now a RAGING alcoholic, and the hands were the most apparent injury, but there were internal injuries and burns). This was 25 years ago.

Two terribly crushed feet, meaning limps for the rest of their lives. One work related, one working at home related, not tree related

I was almost blinded by an employee going outside of his training.
I had my climbing rope go into the chipper, 30' from the tree, after being EXTREMELY clear about the next work plan, with Call and Respond. When the rope cut, I rebounded up at a huge broken stub that could have hung me from my eye socket.

Groundie almost put a chip truck through an occupied house by working outside of his training. (my friend's loaded chip truck and chipper, at a storm job in Illinois)

I'm sure given time, I could come up with many more.











Again, what I'm learning is to fire people sooner, after less safety infractions and other shit, like "I need to leave early/ come in late because...". That costs me money, headache, productivity loss, scheduling foul-ups, blah, blah.


I figure that laying out the discipline policy and identifying disciplinary infractions and consequences might be the way to weed people out sooner/ get them to get on board or leave, and keep my stress level lower


"Hoods in the woods" kids used to make their own backpacks, "survival packs", out of 2 tarps, 30' of cordage, and a 2" flat webbing strap. If their pack fell apart, or they put it down when it was time to hike, the entire group got to do a 'pack drill', untying and rebuilding their packs. Which is harder, making a 40 pound pack that will stay together all day, or tie/ untie a running bowline? It really isn't like trying to get a sattelite to Mars.






Would it be smart-assed asshole-ish to have an almost 4-year-old teaching adults knots? Dahlia got the clove hitch motion right with only a bit more guidance than I give adults, on her first try. She didn't hold it in one hand while clipping the biner, though. I won't do this, but it crosses my mind.

 

[Levi]

That is a nasty list of accidents. I hope you get it dialed in Sean. Olympia is a destination IMO. Maybe you could try some long range craigs listing. When I was job hunting I would see Portland Co.s on Boulder CL often. I would suggest finding a young person that wants a career not a job. Someone that you like and feel good about giving responsability and ample pay. Sorry if this has been covered already. I hope you figure something out though, I have a lot of fun at work and I think you should too!!

 

[treesandsurf]

uhhhhhhhhhh..... I think you might have missed the point. Sounds like you need to relax Sean??? Try and take a vacation and enjoy life. Jesus your post is stressful to read, I can't even imagine working with you. It's just tree work, enjoy it.

jp

 

[Raj]

Sean, I feel for you. I get it. Situation sure sucks. I'm no good for anything else, I'm in no position to offer advice.