Finding/ training/ retaining good employees...

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  • #27
Call and response is priceless. With no response it can drive one to insanity!

You live in a pretty beautiful place, have you tried to "import" workers?

Seems like something I've looked for over the years, low cost of living (correct?) and high pay at work.

I was thinking a few years ago of moving to Eugene, rent is about half price or less as here and the pay is about the same.

Colorado is expense. We aren't coastal like San Fran, but on the Puget Sound. Eugene is in-land, and a college town. I would guess that its cost of living is in-between. Seattle (60 miles north), very expensive.
 
Sean, I look for a different personality type that you, I think.

It takes a special mind set to be a faller, working on your own all day, only talking to other people for lunch.
Lot of them find out that they can't whip themselves to work fast enough to make money when they are on their own.
Too easy to get distracted and sit on a stump and smoke a cigarette ( Yet another reason why I don't employ smokers)
All we do in the woods is fall to scale, if you don't produce volume, you don't earn money.

That attitude carries over when we do arborist work.
A bunch of bushel fallers are hard to beat for ground work IMO.
The " just shut the frig up and get'er done" attitude makes for an efficient crew.
 
He was just testing the boundaries, like a child with his parents. Some test harder than others.

Some kids/workers actually crave a little direction, guidance.

Nope.
He has been working in a kindergarden in a semi ghetto in København ( Copenhagen to you dumb Yankees!) for the last few years.
He is not used to rules being enforced and people meaning what they say.

I'm changing that rapidly.

" Sir, yes, sir!"
 
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  • #30
I would like to pay on commission, with a subcontractor. Process stuff on the ground any f*&^ing way you want, break any of your own tools you care to, you get paid the same.

I suspect lots of tree companies want people who are career-oriented for their main people. Hard to find.
 
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  • #33
Can people share how they have dealt with the strengths and weaknesses of their management and their employees?

How do you deal with hands-on training, and expectations of performance of that training?

What do you do when people exhibit unsafe work practices?

How do you deal with employees being prompt, prepared, and focused on the job at hand?

How much of a given 8 hour day (lunch and breaks aside) should be focused on company goals? Do you expect 10 minutes of socializing at the beginning of the day, 20 minutes, start working when you're on the clock, focused on work?

How do you give incentives? From praise, to pay increases, to bonuses, to other perks.

How do you review performance, expectations, incidents?
 
Managing people in the tree industry is definately a unique challenge, I don't have any permanent employees- all my guys are contract groundies that work for several companies on an adhoc basis, they are also mostly competent climbers , but, being contractors they are under no official obligation to turn up - Its a totally different setup.
 
Sean, no disrespect at all but I think your big problem is you. I can say this because I have been and continue to be in a similar challenge, along with a lot of people in a lot of different fields. Essentially the model you are operating with, you need a helper that can be at your beck and call and work exactly like you want and basically have a really good brain and at the same time have no brain at all. Good luck finding that guy.

If you want to find good people you need to start hiring employees. Hiring employees and hiring helpers are two entirely different things. Employees are given direction and training but are left to work out the challenges and given accountability for the end result. I am not preaching because I know how challenging it is. When I started a number of years ago I couldn't fathom letting guys drive my truck and chipper. I never drive a truck or chipper or really any of our trucks now. And I don't train the new guys. I let the guys that I trained, train the new guys. They make mistakes, lots of them. But they do improve. My best advice is hire for character where you can, and then when you find someone who does have heart and really cares, give him a wide space to make mistakes and stick with that person and commit to allowing them to stumble through the process. It's not easy, but the rewards are huge. I have great guys now that I trust and care a lot about and I think it goes both ways. When you realize you can't do it on your own and you start to learn to trust others, those people will show up to the challenge IME. Good luck!

jp:D
 
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  • #39
Thank you, Jon.







Having been almost killed once by a groundie's mistake, and almost blinded once by a groundie's mistake, and almost killing someone because of being effectively forced to work without enough spotters, leaves me extra safety concious.

I got spoiled by working with a professional at State Parks.

I would love to hire a professional, and pay them as best I can.
 
IMHO sometimes companies don't have the cash available to have prolonged training or absorb employee mistakes. That's the situation I see up here often.
 
IMHO sometimes companies don't have the cash available to have prolonged training or absorb employee mistakes. That's the situation I see up here often.
Yep, another problem with our industry. The money just isn't there to attract quality people or encourage good practices.
 
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  • #42
I'm figuring that I'm giving too many chances. Stig pointed out how quickly the guy was to show up on time, after being warned.



What do you all think, and how do you address:
How many times do you let someone make the SAME mistake, dangerous or not before training them the safer, better way (e.g. don't look down the bar while leaning over the plane of the bar, not wrapping a thumb on the wrap-handle, drop starting the saw, holding the pistol grip and trigger rather than roll starting it on a log or leg-lock/ ground start/ faux drop-start by holding the wrap handle)?

How many times do you let someone make that same mistake, after training them?



Should it be three infractions in a day, and they are sent home? Let them do it without correction?


How do you address people showing up unprepared, such as no lunch, no lunch money? Low blood sugar is a safety issue to me.

Does McDonald's let people do things their own way? Does a steel mill let people do things their own way? Does a day care, subject to state regulations let people do things their own way?


Some mistakes are expected from everyone. How much do you all figure, as a percentage of Gross Revenue, is acceptable for neglectful damage, like driving over a saw? A rigged piece shattering, ricocheting, and breaking a window happens sometimes. That's normal. What part of your budget goes into non-neglect repairs.

Personally, extremely little. No chainsaw cuts, no chaps cut, no falls from trees, two back strains over 8 years.
Locally, that I personally know of, I can count at least 4 major accidents from one company, who I have very little contact with. Same company left a MS 660 where I was working on trees over the house (didn't trust the other crew).

That's with little knowledge of what else they do. I learned they put a log through a wall, into a sleeping baby's nursery at an apartment building through negligence. That guy runs dirty as all get-out. Half of his Yelp review SUCK, and half are Great. Most people are amazed at any tree work, good or bad.


My rep it on doing things as described, generally as well or better than expected, professionally, without a bunch of yahoos running around, looking to find a set of teeth between them. The guy mentioned above had someone driving his truck the other day down I-5 next to me, looking like Tweaky McTweak with half a set of teeth, pretty much.

The guy that just left worked at that company for 5 years, while tweaking. He's been clean for over a year now. Being clean/ sober/ court-ordered to have a job/ and needing money were good things in his corner. I had no problem if he had to come in a little late, for a Urine Analysis, so long as it always came up clean. I worked around his court-appointed appointments, and personal things for his family. Probably too forgiving. Hoping for too much. He would have been a fine brush monkey, its just rare that I need a JUST a brush monkey. That being said, I feed the chipper, too, if there isn't something more pressing. Its not that ground-work is just for dummies.


Advice appreciated.
 
Sean I kinda get what you're talking about. I had someone on my crew quit last Friday. He did put a two week notice in but no one saw fit to let me know. I was a bit pissed. I couldn't blame him to much. He got a higher paying job with more benefits, but it still was irritating that he couldn't let me know. I invested a lot of time teaching him to be more than a brush monkey. Today on a large removal I get my rope man and two brush monkeys. The rope man had to untie the knots because I'd still be on the job if we left it up to them. The rope man also ran the winch because they couldn't comprehend it( even though we had a training day two weeks ago and went over nothing but chipper safety, maintainence, and winch usage for 6 f-ing hours). The one at least tried, the other is just a big rock. I have another large removal tomorrow which I might have my rope man fly while I stay on the ground and try to either talk them through it or do it myself and send them walking.
As far as infractions go, that's up to you as the owner. My boss lets guys get away with a lot, but he needs bodies on jobs. If he fired everyone that didn't follow policy it would be my rope man,our stump guy, him, and I.
 
as I dont have much experience in hiring employees but as an employee I have worked for many different types of bosses. one thing I liked about my last boss was at the end of a hard day he would invite me to his place for a beer or two. being invited to a family dinner was also a great honor.

on the job: one climber would stop what he was doing and ask me how to proceed with a cut, then tell me what was right or wrong about my plan, not only making me think about it all, but it felt like i was part of a team and not just a brush dragger.

if you have any easy one, let your groundy fall one... remember then you gotta fall your first tree??

hire nerds not jocks :)
 
on the job: one climber would stop what he was doing and ask me how to proceed with a cut, then tell me what was right or wrong about my plan, not only making me think about it all, but it felt like i was part of a team and not just a brush dragger.

if you have any easy one, let your groundy fall one... remember when you gotta fall your first tree??

hire nerds not jocks :)

hahaha....hire nerds....I like that. Would be a great t-shirt.

Good comments, Mr. Moon.
 
I'll be in the same boat,and have been as I have grown. The guy with me the longest is due to retire 64 and my up and coming climber will be moving back south much to my dismay. What everyone else said I too will be taking into consideration. I admit to not letting go of the reins until I know they can drive the horse.
Thanks all for your comments!
 
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  • #48
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

You can get another horse, though.
 
The horse might not fancy what's on offer and wander off to a trough where the water's sweeter and it gets less earache.
 
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  • #50
Mick, what do you advise?

Do I rig smaller so that he doesn't have to put the rope in the already-set-up Porta-wrap, as he suggested? We had just finished training for half an hour on the Simply 3:1 technique, btw. I trained him for about 10 minutes, then while I was self-sufficiently working, and had him practice on the bollard on the mini, a safe distance away.

What kind of training do you provide? What kind of responsibility to you hold your employees to? How do you address problems after hands-on training (I'll show you and explain it, then put it in your hands and have you do it)?

For a specific issue, coming into the death/ crush zone/ drop zone, unannounced, what do you do?


I've had plenty of good advice to hire better employees from non-business owners. Why did not think of that?
 
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