Felling cuts - level or diagonal cut first?

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Bounce said:
Here's a question for those of you that like to make the diagonal cut first - if you aren't in touch with the force and can't instinctively aim the tree (say you have only 10 years of experience), how do you know precisely where it's going to fall? Is it possible to be precise and make the diagonal cut first? If so, how?
Click to expand...

Bounce as others have said use the sights on the top of the casing as well or what i do on small to medium sized trees is lean your left shoulder on the tree and put your saw on the trunk to start your top diagonal cut. As long as you remember the felling direction is 90 degrees to the guidebar (which you almost make with your body position in relation to the saw) it isnt difficult to master. I used to make the bottom cut first purely to get as low on the stump as possible for timber but training people now find we advise top then bottom to try to avoid over cuts by looking in the top cut as others mentioned. Most important of all is confidence in any technique but aware of different ones for different circumstances. I've played around with the humbolt mainly for fun and perhaps need larger tree's to help but find it hard to master!:(
 
There is a book out.... wait a minute, I think I remember the name, it's coming back to me now!...Oh yeah, "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" written by a fellah named Beranek...Seems to cover this!
 
Angle cut first for conventional, flat for humbolt. Angles right, cuts accurate and meeting correctly. hinge appropriate and as desired are more critical
 
All my early training was to make the horizontal cut first, whether conventional or humbolt style. Maybe because of that I never could get comfortable with the idea of making the angled cut first.

I don't think I can imagine myself accurately gunning the lay from the very beginning of the angled cut and not having an easy way to re-aim...swinging in on the horizontal allows fine-tuning the gun from beginning to end, and I often do some minor tweaks as I finish at the hinge, either on the off-side or near-side.

For what it's worth, Doug Dent once would have expected a cutter to make the horizontal cut first...he even will refer to it as the "gunning cut". But in my re-cert. classes of more recent years he has allowed as how he doesn't care which you do first, so long as the results are satisfactory. Never seen him do the angled cut first himself, but anyway...

I first heard about making the angled cut first on arbo websites about 2000...shook my head at the foolishness of it...but I tried it a few times and I made it work, I'm just not comfortable with it.

As far as the assertion that siting down the angled cut to watch for the bar so as to not bypass and create a dutchman, I reckon that's true. But if you fail to leave the end of the angled cut level, or fail to make the horizontal cut level, you will not come out right...and we all know that it's easy to fail in achieving a level cut. So only one single aspect of forming a proper face/hinge is assisted by angled cut first technique.

I just check the off-side as I near completion, and watch for the bar coming parallel to the hinge to guage when to stop the angled cut before bypassing the horizontal cut.

It works for me. If doing it the wrong way works for you...go for it :P:D;).
 
I check the offside as well a few times through the second (angled) cut too Burnham. To see how I'm doin' on my lineup. I also have learned over the years that you have to put more angle on your bar than seems neccessary on that second cut. It is easier to come up short and clean it up, than it is to be long and cut a dutchman...

Unless you are doin' the dutchman on purpose... ;)

Gary
 
Y'all stop to check how your angled cut is going?:roll:

Sheesh I thought I was in the company of cutters.:P
 
LMAO... I never said nothin' about stoppin'...

When ya got arms like Sasquatch, it's easy to look around to the other side of the tree... :lol:

How do you puny guys do it? :P

Gary
 
Real question is when you stop to check what's happening on the other side of the tree...................which way do you walk around?:/:
 
haha i see a dutchman now!
gary, do you just reach around and feel the chain?:lol:
 
squisher said:
Y'all stop to check how your angled cut is going?:roll::P
Click to expand...

Yeah, sometimes when it's a heavy tree with back lean that is being pulled. I might want to gander around the other side before giving the final ok to pull, after the tree has been brought up to tension and cut some more. Kind of a little mental check-list.

Why is a Dutchman bad, other than that a good part of the time they don't work?
 
Umm if you're giving the final ok to pull, I hope you're not still working on the angled cut.:P

And a dutchmen is a whole other thread. It's basically when the two cuts of your undercut don't meet up properly. This compromises the hinge and will 'steer' the tree or cause the hinge to 'pop', which unless you know the effects and are trying to use it to your advantage is a very bad thing.

Dutchmen = slang for messed up undercut.
 
WWB, I would hope that you are not having someone pull while you are stll making your facecut.
As to why Dutchmen are bad... Have you seen Paul B?;)
Deliberate use of a Dutchman has a place in precision felling. A Step Dutchman in particular can be counted on to generally do some work. Swings are more complicated, and for most of us more "iffy". Accidentally placed kerf dutchmen in the face cut are simply bad- Like Paulie B the Dreadful Dutchman.:D
 
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Anybody know why they call it a dutchman? It's not like we call it a Scandinavian or a Norseman. Somebody actually chose to single out the Dutch. :lol:
 
The term probably is derived from early immigrants involved in tree felling....likely a racial slur or prejudice that found it's way into general use as the name for a technique. There are a number of names like that applied to tools or techniques in construction or shipping related trades, where a lot of different nationalities came into contact. It may have been a hateful thing, or just good natured bantering. I think it may be an old carpentry term that moved over to logging.
 
East coaster at work....................with one of those diagonal jobbers.
 

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Bounce said:
For the life of me I just can't figure out any benefit to making the diagonal cut first and finishing with the level cut... What do you guys do and why?
Click to expand...

Angled cut first then horizontal cut with conventional.

And my reason is this: I took a chainsaw safety and felling class taught by Ron Hartill and sponsored by Husqvarna. What I learned from Ron was the idea of placing the top angled cut in first is beneficial because when you are cutting your horizontal cut to complete the notch you can see through the angled cut to watch for the tip of your bar. This way you cannot bypass your cut in your notch and you end up with a perfect notch.
 
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