gf beranek
Old Schooler
"When you're gunning the tree for the lay, Jer , you gun the top" Jack Brooks RIP.
Never truer words said.
Never truer words said.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
And here I thought those were "racing stripes"!!!!
Thanks Willie.
Thanks Willie.
Bounce as others have said use the sights on the top of the casing as well or what i do on small to medium sized trees is lean your left shoulder on the tree and put your saw on the trunk to start your top diagonal cut. As long as you remember the felling direction is 90 degrees to the guidebar (which you almost make with your body position in relation to the saw) it isnt difficult to master. I used to make the bottom cut first purely to get as low on the stump as possible for timber but training people now find we advise top then bottom to try to avoid over cuts by looking in the top cut as others mentioned. Most important of all is confidence in any technique but aware of different ones for different circumstances. I've played around with the humbolt mainly for fun and perhaps need larger tree's to help but find it hard to master!
Altissimus
TreeHouser
There is a book out.... wait a minute, I think I remember the name, it's coming back to me now!...Oh yeah, "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" written by a fellah named Beranek...Seems to cover this!
pete mctree
Treehouser
Angle cut first for conventional, flat for humbolt. Angles right, cuts accurate and meeting correctly. hinge appropriate and as desired are more critical
Burnham
Woods walker
All my early training was to make the horizontal cut first, whether conventional or humbolt style. Maybe because of that I never could get comfortable with the idea of making the angled cut first.
I don't think I can imagine myself accurately gunning the lay from the very beginning of the angled cut and not having an easy way to re-aim...swinging in on the horizontal allows fine-tuning the gun from beginning to end, and I often do some minor tweaks as I finish at the hinge, either on the off-side or near-side.
For what it's worth, Doug Dent once would have expected a cutter to make the horizontal cut first...he even will refer to it as the "gunning cut". But in my re-cert. classes of more recent years he has allowed as how he doesn't care which you do first, so long as the results are satisfactory. Never seen him do the angled cut first himself, but anyway...
I first heard about making the angled cut first on arbo websites about 2000...shook my head at the foolishness of it...but I tried it a few times and I made it work, I'm just not comfortable with it.
As far as the assertion that siting down the angled cut to watch for the bar so as to not bypass and create a dutchman, I reckon that's true. But if you fail to leave the end of the angled cut level, or fail to make the horizontal cut level, you will not come out right...and we all know that it's easy to fail in achieving a level cut. So only one single aspect of forming a proper face/hinge is assisted by angled cut first technique.
I just check the off-side as I near completion, and watch for the bar coming parallel to the hinge to guage when to stop the angled cut before bypassing the horizontal cut.
It works for me. If doing it the wrong way works for you...go for it
.
I don't think I can imagine myself accurately gunning the lay from the very beginning of the angled cut and not having an easy way to re-aim...swinging in on the horizontal allows fine-tuning the gun from beginning to end, and I often do some minor tweaks as I finish at the hinge, either on the off-side or near-side.
For what it's worth, Doug Dent once would have expected a cutter to make the horizontal cut first...he even will refer to it as the "gunning cut". But in my re-cert. classes of more recent years he has allowed as how he doesn't care which you do first, so long as the results are satisfactory. Never seen him do the angled cut first himself, but anyway...
I first heard about making the angled cut first on arbo websites about 2000...shook my head at the foolishness of it...but I tried it a few times and I made it work, I'm just not comfortable with it.
As far as the assertion that siting down the angled cut to watch for the bar so as to not bypass and create a dutchman, I reckon that's true. But if you fail to leave the end of the angled cut level, or fail to make the horizontal cut level, you will not come out right...and we all know that it's easy to fail in achieving a level cut. So only one single aspect of forming a proper face/hinge is assisted by angled cut first technique.
I just check the off-side as I near completion, and watch for the bar coming parallel to the hinge to guage when to stop the angled cut before bypassing the horizontal cut.
It works for me. If doing it the wrong way works for you...go for it
.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
I check the offside as well a few times through the second (angled) cut too Burnham. To see how I'm doin' on my lineup. I also have learned over the years that you have to put more angle on your bar than seems neccessary on that second cut. It is easier to come up short and clean it up, than it is to be long and cut a dutchman...
Unless you are doin' the dutchman on purpose...
Gary
Unless you are doin' the dutchman on purpose...
Gary
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Y'all stop to check how your angled cut is going?:roll:
Sheesh I thought I was in the company of cutters.
Sheesh I thought I was in the company of cutters.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
LMAO... I never said nothin' about stoppin'...
When ya got arms like Sasquatch, it's easy to look around to the other side of the tree...
How do you puny guys do it?
Gary
When ya got arms like Sasquatch, it's easy to look around to the other side of the tree...
How do you puny guys do it?
Gary
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Real question is when you stop to check what's happening on the other side of the tree...................which way do you walk around?
Paul B
I dig hammocks.
Dutch man?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
haha i see a dutchman now!
gary, do you just reach around and feel the chain?
gary, do you just reach around and feel the chain?
Dutchmen are bad. Bad Paulie.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Y'all stop to check how your angled cut is going?:roll:
Yeah, sometimes when it's a heavy tree with back lean that is being pulled. I might want to gander around the other side before giving the final ok to pull, after the tree has been brought up to tension and cut some more. Kind of a little mental check-list.
Why is a Dutchman bad, other than that a good part of the time they don't work?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Umm if you're giving the final ok to pull, I hope you're not still working on the angled cut.
And a dutchmen is a whole other thread. It's basically when the two cuts of your undercut don't meet up properly. This compromises the hinge and will 'steer' the tree or cause the hinge to 'pop', which unless you know the effects and are trying to use it to your advantage is a very bad thing.
Dutchmen = slang for messed up undercut.
And a dutchmen is a whole other thread. It's basically when the two cuts of your undercut don't meet up properly. This compromises the hinge and will 'steer' the tree or cause the hinge to 'pop', which unless you know the effects and are trying to use it to your advantage is a very bad thing.
Dutchmen = slang for messed up undercut.
WWB, I would hope that you are not having someone pull while you are stll making your facecut.
As to why Dutchmen are bad... Have you seen Paul B?
Deliberate use of a Dutchman has a place in precision felling. A Step Dutchman in particular can be counted on to generally do some work. Swings are more complicated, and for most of us more "iffy". Accidentally placed kerf dutchmen in the face cut are simply bad- Like Paulie B the Dreadful Dutchman.
As to why Dutchmen are bad... Have you seen Paul B?
Deliberate use of a Dutchman has a place in precision felling. A Step Dutchman in particular can be counted on to generally do some work. Swings are more complicated, and for most of us more "iffy". Accidentally placed kerf dutchmen in the face cut are simply bad- Like Paulie B the Dreadful Dutchman.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
Umm if you're giving the final ok to pull, I hope you're not still working on the angled cut.
Nope...
Gary
B
Bounce
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #69
Anybody know why they call it a dutchman? It's not like we call it a Scandinavian or a Norseman. Somebody actually chose to single out the Dutch.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
The term probably is derived from early immigrants involved in tree felling....likely a racial slur or prejudice that found it's way into general use as the name for a technique. There are a number of names like that applied to tools or techniques in construction or shipping related trades, where a lot of different nationalities came into contact. It may have been a hateful thing, or just good natured bantering. I think it may be an old carpentry term that moved over to logging.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
What about 'school marm'.
Bodean
Cali dreamer
sotc
Dormant hero!!
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
Except when you are subbing for some cajey O'l asshole.
Then I do them on purpose every time...only while they are there watching.... of course
J
Jamin Mayer
Guest
Angled cut first then horizontal cut with conventional.
And my reason is this: I took a chainsaw safety and felling class taught by Ron Hartill and sponsored by Husqvarna. What I learned from Ron was the idea of placing the top angled cut in first is beneficial because when you are cutting your horizontal cut to complete the notch you can see through the angled cut to watch for the tip of your bar. This way you cannot bypass your cut in your notch and you end up with a perfect notch.
