Does sprocket size noticeably affect torque?

[Al Smith]

Okay Jay here's what I gleened from IPLs .The 034 and 036 list different clutch shoes but the same number of clutch drum .The 036 and the 044 list the exact same number of clutch shoe so that tells me the clutchs are the same diameter .

The drum bearing on the 034/036 is a metric 10x13x 10 .The bearing on an 044 12x15 ??--probabley 10 I'd guess .So it would take a 10x15 ?? bearing for an 044 drum .Problem being that's not a standard size .

Now what could be done instead of a caged needle is a brass bushing which in my opinion is as good as a caged needle anyway .

Keep in mind I'm only speculating that an 044 drum might be possible to retrofit to an 034/036 because I have no idea of proving that without an 044 drum .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Certainly seems worth a try checking it out. Thanks a lot for the tip, Al. I'll let you know. When i stuck the 036 top end on there, I think I kept the original 034 clutch on it. You're thinking that I would need a clutch to match with the 044 drum, for some reason the 034 one won't work?

 

[Cut4fun]

mastermind knows this conversion first hand. 034/036 upgraded to 360-044 set up. Part #1125-007-1041 to upgrade. $35 for the complete kit at dealer

Some say something about having to tweak the oiler drive wire to the drum on the upgrade. I'm not sure on this part.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Kevin, I see that # as the rim and drum upgrade for the older 034 and 036 or 340/360 set, replacing the smaller bearing with the 16mm. No mention of it fitting the 044 that I can find, and a different part number for the 044 r and d. I assume it is still the smaller spline on that upgrade drum.

 

[Cut4fun]

I have no clue. Just passing on info from what I was told in the past. Because I never went through with it when I sold both 034 and 036.

Thats why I said get hold of mastermind. He has done these first hand.

 

[Cut4fun]

Here is some info out of the thread.

Mastermind


Kevin I use a 044 clutch drum on the 036. That gives you a larger bearing. Just twist the oil pump drive up a bit to get it to engage in the 044 drum. It works very well.

Mastermind
They have an upgrade for the 036. This issue was addressed on the ms360.....but the 044 drum is something most guys have in a box under the bench.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks again for the information, Kevin. It seems pretty straight forward if the internal id of the bearing that fits the 044 drum, also fits the 034 driveshaft.

 

[Al Smith]

You have to ask yourself a question though .With the 036 top it's still only a tad over 60 cc's .Souped or not an 8 tooth might really put the dogs to it .

Then again if you played with the chain and left the rakers say about 22 thou and kept the speed up it might handle it .You'll never know until you try .

 

[woodworkingboy]

It's interesting about that saw series, as you know, Al, not a lot of ccs as you say, but bred for torgue, and Dean's exclamations about the 036 top end on the 034 case, especially when souped up with some cylinder and piston work, I found to be really on the mark. Still the 034 carb on it, but a heck of a saw with a 20" bar! Really really big on torque now, a rather firm stance and grip essential when starting a plunge cut. Just thought the 8 pin would be interesting to try out, maybe get some more for your noise.

 

[Al Smith]

I ran one of Deans master pieces at a GTG and it was a little torquer .Fact the one I built up although stock did well for it's size but I didn't have it long enough to delve into any enhancements on it .

Fact Tom used it for a couple days or maybe a week after he encountered a bunch of thievery because he flat ran out of saws to equip the crew until he had some money rolling in the first of the tree work season .The difference just a few ccs' made over a stock 034 was dramatic .

 

[Cut4fun]

Thanks again for the information, Kevin. It seems pretty straight forward if the internal id of the bearing that fits the 044 drum, also fits the 034 driveshaft.

Here is the bearing and I think I have 2 on the shelf if you need more on them.

Copy and pasted info VVV

NEEDLE CAGE SPROCKET BEARING FOR STIHL 044, 046, MS340, MS341, MS360, MS361, MS362, MS440, MS441 & MS460 MODELS #9512 933 2380 10mm x 16mm x 12mm

Pic from feebay too.

 

[Al Smith]

Ah so I was mistaken about bearing size because 10x16x12 a standard sized bearing ,good .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sure is a beefier looking bearing. Yeah, I checked it out and see them offered for sale on ebay. The original old style bearing is still on the saw, and based on what you see written about them blowing out, even with the increased power, it is still somehow holding up. I might be one of the few people on the planet that does fairly regular grease up the Stihl bearing. No much to do, but think the Husky idea where you shoot grease into a hole in the driveshaft, is something Stihl should follow.

 

[Al Smith]

It's not a bad idea but there are two trains of thought on that .One being it attracts dust .Personally I blow them off and squirt a little oil on them in the event I pull a drum off .

Now as I recall it that 034/036 that Cut ended up with had a funky bearing which I replaced .What I can't remember was if it was a new one or one I fished out of a parts box .

 

[woodworkingboy]

It's kind of the same debate on bar nose sprocket bearings. Grease seems to disappear rather quickly on those drum bearings, wonder if oil is better? I can't ever recall accessing one and seeing much in the way of grease still existing, mostly they just look rather dry. I guess the heat dissipates it quick. A sealed bearing would be nice. I bet their are lots of old to ancient saws running out there that have never been greased.

 

[Cut4fun]

The 034 036 bearing is a small bearing that is used on all the little poulans and plastic stihls like 290 etc. Have those too if you need a comparison pic later.

10x13x10

Fits the following chainsaws:

Husqvarna 36, 41, 136, 141
Jonsered 2035, 2036, 2040
Poulan 210, 221, 230, 255, 260, 295, 1950, 2050, 2055, 2075, 2150, 2155, 2175, 2250, 2375, 2450, 2500, 2550, 2600, 2750, 2775, 2900, 3050, P600, Patriot 1900, Wild Thing, Woodshark
Stihl 017, 018, 019 T, 021, 023, 024, 025, 026, 029, 034, 036, 039, MS 170, MS 180, MS 190, MS 191 T, MS 210, MS 230, MS 240, MS 250, MS 260, MS 270, MS 290, MS 390
Replaces Stihl Part Number 9512 003 2260 and 9512 933 2260

 

[Al Smith]

It would not apply to a chainsaw application .However when they lubricate a sealed bearing for a precision spindle used in high speed CNC machinery they first remove the seals then they power flush all the grease out of it .Then they regrease it and blow all the excess out with compressed air .Then reinstall new seals .It's conventional wisdom in that line of work that what clings to the balls or rollers is all that will ever get on the bearing .

That crud that gets packed in the bearing of a saw drum bearing is a mixture of dust and lubricant .Essentually valve grinding compound in a manner of speaking .

 

[Tucker943]

Would you say that's worse then running dry Al?

 

[woodworkingboy]

I grease up now and then, and it has never been a problem. An amazing amount of crud and stuff surprisingly gets close, but being in the sleeve like that seems to much protect the bearing from grit. I just figure a bearing is intended best to be lubricated. Wash and grease is my motto.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Don't forget that this bearing doesn't take so much load, because it works only when the saw is idling. When power is needed, the clutch locks the parts together.
It has a hard time only if the chain is over tightened.

 

[mrdiesel]

I mainly run huskies and religiously greased the needle cage and bar sprockets. Cutting stringy bark using semi chisel chain i would frequently jam the bar sprocket with crud buildup , since i stopped greasing it the bar sprocket i have greatly reduced the number of jams and the bars are holding up ok.

The needle cage always seems to stay clean so i keep greasing it

 

[Al Smith]

Would you say that's worse then running dry Al?

Not really .However any bearing with no seals will need attention if it's lubricated .Not a big deal just something you need to do .

I've pulled greased bearings from drums of old saws that evidently never got checked and the rollers were froze solid .A little spritz with some WD -40 they loosened right up .The grease and crud had set up about like wax .Now they still turned on the shaft but were acting like a sleeve bearings instead of a roller .

 

[Al Smith]

Conversely I've pulled drums were the bearing cage was gone vanished .Well you know the rollers bunch up and the drum could run eccentric or wobbley which would be hard on the drum ,clutch shoes and crankshaft ,bearings ,seals .Bad enough they would break the clutch shoes.

Now that's cool a freakin saw with a hung clutch---not .

 

[Tucker943]

Ive NEVER once have had drum or sprocket issues with my saws and some of them have thousands of hours on them. Really, I never really run into problems at all with saws Ive bought brand new, minus broken chain brake levers. I guess Ive been lucky. I have a flat top 066 that seems weak and the clutch hangs up when its up to temp. Has new rings, oversized dawgs, and carb rebuild. Clean saw too. Dealer tuned it to top out at 12,100. Im half tempted to put it up for sale for 300 bucks.

 

[Al Smith]

Well you probabley don't beat the piss out of them like some of them I repair .I had one,some model of Stihl they ran with no drum bearing .Fried the plastic around the drum and broke two out of three clutch shoes .I had a tough time getting the drum off .