crazy Russian tree cutting

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woodworkingboy said:
None of those pics really show much twist at all when they leave the cut. I don't think the Vee cut has much application for those. Have never used that Vee cut, but have opened up sides and nipped away watching what progress brings. There are also different scenarios when the boom is off center with a long reach and maybe complicated by long limbs. I've done a lot of crane work as well, and have seen pics do some twisting and shifting about, as no doubt most people have. For a person like Reg that is masterful and has probably pretty much seen it all and has great anticipatory wisdom , I believe that he accomplishes his tasks with the simplest solutions. Unfortunately, not everyone is so skilled, or is always working with a crane op that has the best coordination with what;s happening in the tree. If the Vee cut or pencil cut helps to eliminate potential problems, especially for people with not much experience who need to learn and build up their confidence, it seems like something that can be useful to be aware of. Most guys who are well versed seldom have the need, but maybe every now and then for some reason seems like that tool at the bottom of the drawer that is good to remember that you have. Crane ops tell me that they commonly are working with guys that get their saws stuck, are appreciative of the ones that manage better one way or another. Just my two....
Click to expand...

Good points for sure and I agree.
 
woodworkingboy said:
None of those pics really show much twist at all when they leave the cut. I don't think the Vee cut has much application for those. Have never used that Vee cut, but have opened up sides and nipped away watching what progress brings. There are also different scenarios when the boom is off center with a long reach and maybe complicated by long limbs. I've done a lot of crane work as well, and have seen pics do some twisting and shifting about, as no doubt most people have. For a person like Reg that is masterful and has probably pretty much seen it all and has great anticipatory wisdom , I believe that he accomplishes his tasks with the simplest solutions. Unfortunately, not everyone is so skilled, or is always working with a crane op that has the best coordination with what;s happening in the tree. If the Vee cut or pencil cut helps to eliminate potential problems, especially for people with not much experience who need to learn and build up their confidence, it seems like something that can be useful to be aware of. Most guys who are well versed seldom have the need, but maybe every now and then for some reason seems like that tool at the bottom of the drawer that is good to remember that you have. Crane ops tell me that they commonly are working with guys that get their saws stuck, are appreciative of the ones that manage better one way or another. Just my two....
Click to expand...

Jay, if somethings going to twist or in fact move in some other motion, then its generally safer if the movement is gradual. With that cut you're only delaying the inevitable to point where its going to release and move suddenly. I just see no merit at all.

Chris. Justin had the luxury of working with massive Cranes all the time, whereby they had a much greater load capacity to work within. He would also repel most times before the section was picked off the cut. We were often at the other end of the scale.... tight parking spots, small cranes maxed out to their load limit. Limiting the amount of movement was often critical, as a shudder or shock caused by movement can instantly add several extra hundred pounds of force. More than once we've had some lift on the furthest outriggers.
 
I have one in the garage that usually has root beer in it... occasionally some hard apple cider. Rarely beer though....

No beer, silly vee cuts, stihl saws, I'm feeling like a failure now :P
 
I agree, Reg, I see limited application for the Vee cut for the reason you mentioned. It does remind of a cut used at the base where the tree gets plunged through leaving two or three points of attachment on the outside. Angled cuts down then frees the log but keeps it cradled within the "ears" until the crane slowly picks it up and allows additional control with a rope or hands or whatever if needed.. Up tight against a structure or something it has been useful in preventing swing upon release. I really think that is what the vee cut is for, cradling for a time. Maybe the climber can get out of Dodge. As I say, never used it.

The "pencil cut" on the other hand leaves the top sitting on a central post that when whittled down small enough, the tree will slowly twist or lean off of it but still stay attached. It can let the pick do what it's going to do while basically still attached. A good method for learners, I feel, or when balance is unpredictable or ...I'll use the word, scary!
 
woodworkingboy said:
It does remind of a cut used at the base where the tree gets plunged through leaving two or three points of attachment on the outside. Angled cuts down then frees the log but keeps it cradled within the "ears" until the crane slowly picks it up and allows additional control with a rope or hands or whatever if needed.. Up tight against a structure or something it has been useful in preventing swing upon release.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was just shown this cut this past year and it works great. Wondering how many climbers use this method when making a stump cut? First time I used this cut with a very experienced crane operator, he thought I was an idiot. That changed after he saw how nicely the piece just sat on the stump until he was ready to lift it.
 
Cool you know it, Chris. I learned to from a crane op specializing in tree work. Very reliable method for no stuck saw and no need for a wedge. The order of which ears to cut down from makes things go especially well, given boom position. I like how it lets the op lean the tree the way you want to before the final release cut.
 
I give all credit for learning this cut to Mike Teti from Penn. Not sure where he got it from but from the sounds of it, others know about it as well, which is great. I'm helping TCIA with some things in rewriting the Crane Manual BMP and I showed them this cut along with photos, so hopefully we can pass it on to others.
 
You know that gulag stuff was all made up, right? The Russkies would never do that to their people? Or would they?
 
I didn't know that.

I googed gulag before posting to make sure of its meaning and a glance indicated the gulag was a real thing in the 50s?
 
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