Climbing Under A Limb - Stupid?

[lxskllr]

My locust again... The insurance company is bitching about a limb that if broken, /might/ hit the gutter on the garage. I'd probably tell them to pound sand if I weren't likely to remove the whole tree in the not too distant future. I'm still unsure if it'll be this year, so I'm thinking of a reduction to get rid of part of that limb instead of the whole thing. Due to the wacky geometry, I don't know that I trust walking on top, so I was considering going underneath so the rope's got most of my weight, and just using a lanyard to hold myself in position. Sound reasonable?

I figure while I'm up there, I could get rid of some dead wood, and get a better feel for the whole tree. Depends on how much the heat bothers me.

 

[Patrick A]

Unless you are on the last branch of a tree, aren't you climbing under a limb? It sounds ok to me. One thing that could happen is that you remove so much weight at once that the limbs picks you up. If this is a concern, I would remove a little at time.

 

[lxskllr]

The biggest thing in my mind is it puts you in a weird cutting position, and you're also in the line of fire for dropped wood, but I wouldn't be taking anything major off. I need to look at it a bit closer.

The change of plans is nothing like I imagined for my complete removal, but it might work out pretty well. It'll give me a chance to see how sound the tree is up close, and give me a better idea for how I'll remove it when it eventually happens. The replacement tree is growing right next to it(don't want to damage it), and my space for dropping wood is pretty limited.

 

[Altissimus]

Get at it anyway you can , stable position for cuts w climbline and safety's sometimes with a wrap , even a foot loop if it helps .... make small pieces rigged with a sling then undo hitch and chuck them

 

[Benjo75]

I'm assuming you are planning on climbing on the bottom side of the limb is because there is not a good tip above for a decent rope angle? I've done that once. It was near impossible to fire up the saw and make a decent cut in that position. I couldn't reach as high as I thought I could and it was way harder to get the saw in the right position and cut.

There's nothing wrong with putting your lanyard around it and butt scooting your way out. Or you could set the tail of your line towards the end of the limb and pull your way out there. Using a separate hitch of course. Then try to stay on the side of the limb.

 

[DMc]

Why not try it from the side? As long as your tip is high enough, you should be able to comfortably position to the side and have a much better and safer cutting angle.

 

[lxskllr]

I'm assuming you are planning on climbing on the bottom side of the limb is because there is not a good tip above for a decent rope angle?

No, it;s due to the way the limb is growing, and I don't know that I trust it to hold my weight. If the house is at 12 Oclock, the limb comes off of the tree at 9 and 45° up. After ~.5' it goes 90° straight towards the house, and parallel with the ground, then gently rising as it gets towards the tip. Looks like a weak setup to me.

 

[Bermy]

If you can achieve a nice high tie-in...the ole 'butt scoot' can work...keep your primary tie in nice and tight to reduce the amount of weight the branch is taking that you are sitting on.
Use loop runners for foot and handholds along the way...

 

[lxskllr]

Thanks guys. Some good ideas. I particularly like using a second rope or tail, and just "floating" out there. Sounds easier than it probably is, but it'll be something new to try. I guess there isn't any technical reason I couldn't walk out there keeping the weight on the rope, but I don't think I have what it takes to pull that off atm.

 

[Bermy]

Mate...go for the 'butt scoot'...wrap a loop runner to put your foot in so you can push forward then rest and adjust...repeat.

One of the reasons I am looking into getting a Captain Hook is just such the scenario you describe. I would normally throw my lanyard ahead, pull the end back and use it to pull myself forward, but sometimes a convenient branch is too far ahead to comfortably retrieve the end...Capt Hook, no need to retrieve the end....and now I'd have that connection out there to use to pull myself out.

 

[Tree09]

How big is this limb? Assuming it's not rotten you would be amazed by how little wood will actually hold you. Sloth climbing, aka on the bottom, is a last resort thing. While it would seem ideal to climb that way, it's completely not. Your spurs will really try to kick out because you are basically pulling them sideways. I usually only resort to sloth if I'm lacking a tip so i have no option, or occasionally when pruning so i don't have spurs on, and can do handsaw work while catching the pieces. It's misery tho, so no, and you are really putting more weight on it than you realise.

With a climb line, you ideally get it as high as possible. Then you use it like a kids swing, by sitting in your harness and using your arms and legs to go upwards. You usually have to either let out line or pull line in to stay on the limb. If you sit on the limb (butt scoot), these adjustments will literally raise or lower the limb you are sitting on by how much weight you have in your harness. Since your climbing system attaches to your front, your body will want to face your tip. This is where a rope bridge is nice, so you can turn and climb on the side if the limb.

With spurs, this becomes just like climbing straight up, but you will be laying more or less sideways. Depending on your line angle, you can be on one side of the limb and be pulled onto the limb (much much preferred) or be pulled away (no). Climb out sideways a bit, put your lanyard on the limb, and start spur climbing sideways on the side of the limb. You control how far on the side by your climb line. It's weird at first, but this is what climbing is all about.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd have to look, but I think it's ~5" at the butt. I want to treat it as a prune at this point, so I'm not gonna use spurs. The tree will certainly come out eventually, and the smart thing will be this fall, but I don't know yet. I need to get more familiar with working ropes only, so I might as well make the most of the opportunity. Of course, I'm saying that from the comfort of the house in front of the computer. If it ends up being a real PITA, I'd probably throw the spurs on :^D

edit:
It isn't so much the size of the limb that concerns me, but the weird way it comes off the tree. I think it might have some weakness in the acute bends, and torquing on it farther out could cause it to fail.

 

[Tree09]

It won't, and even if it did, your climb line will save you. Just watch for the pendulum fall, hence your lanyard

 

[SkwerI]

Brian the asshole is going to offer his 2 bit opinion now. It sounds to me like you haven't mastered the basics of limbwalking yet. The entire idea of using a lifeline is to hold your weight as you move around the tree. It isn't a passive fall arrest system, it is a work positioning system. Your weight should be on your lifeline pretty much all the time you are in the tree. You use your legs and arms for positioning. In order to walk out a limb, you first need a proper tie in. Then you walk out the limb by leaning back against your lifeline and walking out the far side of the limb. Not on top, not on the bottom, but out the side. You lean away from your tie in and brace yourself with your feet and/or hands. But the weight of your ass needs to be hanging from your lifeline. You don't need balance as much as complete trust in your lifeline to support your weight.

I realize many tree guys live in areas with mostly conifers and other vertical growing trees. I guess I'm fortunate living in central Florida all my life with mostly oaks, including our amazing live oaks which can spread for 150' or more. Try climbing a 70' tree with a 150' spread! You might need 4-5 tie ins to work the entire canopy. If all I had was conifers I probably would have done something else for a living. But our oaks are amazing and they made me into a pretty darn good limbwalker.

 

[lxskllr]

Then you walk out the limb by leaning back against your lifeline and walking out the far side of the limb. Not on top, not on the bottom, but out the side. You lean away from your tie in and brace yourself with your feet and/or hands. But the weight of your ass needs to be hanging from your lifeline. You don't need balance as much as complete trust in your lifeline to support your weight.

Thanks! That's super useful. I've been trying to keep exactly centered; leaning on the rope inline with the branch, so it takes more balance and control to stay in place. Using the branch as a pivot makes much more sense :^)

 

[Howard70]

I wish I had Brian's limb walking skills. Last weekend I needed to trim some dead branches off the end of a long nearly horizontal elm trunk about 30' off the ground. I couldn't get a TIP above the trunk at an angle that I liked and couldn't reach the dead limbs with the pole saw I had at the time. The trunk looked good for my weight out at the end so I installed my smallest friction saver just short of the stuff to be removed, decided on MLS (DbRT) rather than SLS (SRT) to reduce the weight on the trunk, shortened up my Zig-Zag's attachment to my saddle and figured I'd use a foot and knee ascender get up to the trunk hoping that the short friction saver & shortened attachment to my saddle would let me dangle below the trunk close enough to reach out with my small chainsaw and cut the dead limb off. I got up there OK and with my head just below the trunk could comfortably reach the dead limb. I felt I was far enough away and the limb light enough so that if it swung back towards me (ie I didn't cut it well) I'd be OK. Brought up the chainsaw and tried to cut. At that point high school physics came in with equal and opposite action. As soon as I pressed against the limb with the saw I'd rotate away and lose contact. My ground crew (wife) said I looked like a piñata at a kid's party. OK, time for a lanyard to try and stabilize the spin. That sorta worked so combined with exerting pressure and sawing while rotating towards the cut then waiting while rotating away until I'd spin back and cut I finally got the dead limb down. It did hinge back a bit, but didn't reach me so aside from making a simple task way too complicated cutting from below the nearly horizontal trunk worked. But skilled limb walking out there would have been much better.

Howard

 

[lxskllr]

Thanks for the field report Howard! Did you consider getting on the limb from underneath? Perhaps hooking a leg over the top? Easier said than done of course, but it would give you a solid anchor without committing to a long limb walk.

 

[Howard70]

Did you consider getting on the limb from underneath? Perhaps hooking a leg over the top?

That would have been more acrobatic than I'm comfortable with! I wouldn't say it couldn't have worked but I don't think I could have pulled off that much free climbing.

Howard

 

[DMc]

... Brought up the chainsaw and tried to cut. At that point high school physics came in with equal and opposite action. As soon as I pressed against the limb with the saw I'd rotate away and lose contact. My ground crew (wife) said I looked like a piñata at a kid's party. OK, time for a lanyard to try and stabilize the spin...

Glad that worked out for you. Next time you go up a tree with a saw, use your lanyard first, as in before the saw. Being tied in twice is such a simple thing to do and has proven to give a major increase in the likelihood of surviving the day.

 

[Tree09]

And maybe just practice using a handsaw only until you are far better at climbing and work positioning. Using a handsaw will force you to learn proper work positioning, because without it it's really hard

 

[pantheraba]

Work positioning is most of treework to me....sets up safe and efficient ways to accomplish the task.

You should develop consistent balance movement skills in the tree before using a chainsaw in the tree.

Definitely TIT....asking for trouble.

 

[Jonny]

Tit?

 

[Tree09]

Tie in twice (stupid). Now you can't possibly forget it, because everyone loves tits lol

 

[pantheraba]

Doing something that is named after such a wonderful anatomical invention has GOT to be proof that God has a hand in these matters.....

 

[Howard70]

Thanks for the wise words - you guys are definitely correct.

Howard