Chinese 365 Copy...

[bruce6670]

My TV is so old that could have been made in the USA.

 

[woodworkingboy]

It's easy to see that a name brand doesn't equate to quality when looking at the saws that Husky an Stihl sell at the do it yourself home centers here. They are trying to compete with Echo and some others for that market. Pretty junky models.

 

[MCW]

As for this 365 copy........
8 pulls to get a warm saw going...
Come on... That alone is a good reason to take it in for warranty!
OH, no... There is no warranty, no service, no parts supply....

If you think parts are the same (not sure about this 365 never had one here), but in most cases they are not!
The 262 copy was a joke! Same with 372 and countless Stihl copies.

Hey come on Magnus, I have 3 real Huskies, 2 real Stihls, and 3 real Dolmars (plus others).
This saw was not warm (not sure where you got that idea unless of course you're comparing the weather here to your winter?) and had actually just been pulled down and reassembled. It hadn't been started since reassembly. It has actually started on the 4th pull basically every time so far.
My Stihls start on the 4th or 5th pull when cold, as do my Huskies, and as do my Dolmars. If they are meant to start first or second pull than they must all be faulty
This 365 is certainly no joke mate and if you saw it in your own hands you most certainly would not be laughing at it's quality. Remember that there are many saw manufacturers in China and the vast majority are definately junk as I've seen many of them over the years. These 365 copies most certainly aren't.

I knew this thread would touch the odd nerve Remember that this thread was not started to convince people to buy a non-genuine 365, it was started to open a few people's eyes and get people talking - it's certainly done that. I made it clear at the start that I didn't want this to turn into a slinging match like it did on AS when I started a similar thread. In the last 3 odd years I have spent over USD$30,000 on US sourced saws and chainsaw gear for both business and personal use. It is fair to say that I have looked after the "genuine" chainsaw industry more than most.

As far as warranty goes, why would I need it? I can fully pull down and rebuild a saw no problem and apart from one local Stihl dealer the term "service" is non existant with other dealers in the area. The local Husky dealer took over 2 months with a simple warranty service on my 3120 and then had the hide to have a cheap shot at me how I must own a grinder (as the chain was freshly ground on the 42" bar - a chain grind is standard fair whether it needs it or not and he'd have slugged me another $20 for it). In fact if I did indeed ever sell these saws I would cover them with my own warranty. I am very confident that they'll hold together and as yet have seen no reason why they wouldn't adequately hang together for most part time users.

I would NEVER recommend a saw like this to a professional user but if they wanted one I think they'd be surprised at how good they are.

 

[NeTree]

I do wonder how much the retail price of a genuine Husky or Stihl goes not toward the manufacturing cost, but the cost of defending the companies' interests against knock-offs like these.

On the other side, you have a company producing a product they spent no money to design, engineer, test, and trouble-shoot in an extremely cheap labor and materials market. All they have to do is copy a design another company already went through considerable expense developing and proving- so I have no doubt it's a fine chainsaw.

They do it because some cheap dickhead will buy it.

 

[MCW]

I do wonder how much the retail price of a genuine Husky or Stihl goes not toward the manufacturing cost, but the cost of defending the companies' interests against knock-offs like these.

On the other side, you have a company producing a product they spent no money to design, engineer, test, and trouble-shoot in an extremely cheap labor and materials market. All they have to do is copy a design another company already went through considerable expense developing and proving- so I have no doubt it's a fine chainsaw.

They do it because some cheap dickhead will buy it.

Aimed at me? Also whats up with your www.netree.org link in your sig?

I'm also not sure what, or if any, actual patent or copyright infringements have been broken here. Also there have never been any claims by any of the suppliers that they are a genuine Husky or Husky knock off although it's quite obvious it is. 365's have been around a long time now.

 

[NeTree]

Just a guess, but I'm pretty sure you'll find all of the brand-name saws' designs are patented. One of the problems with patent enforcement- within China particularly- is that there's so much money to be made, the government itself isn't friendly to those who try to bring suit.

Aimed at you? Maybe; I didn't buy one.

 

[SkwerI]

I can see the moral dilemma in considering buying one of these saws. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I can understand the attraction if the genuine article were as expensive as they are in Australia. I'm actually more interested in the other angle, how some Chinese exporters are starting to move away from ultra cheap crap and starting to put more effort into building quality copies that might actually rival the originals in performance and durability.

 

[Cut4fun]

Just remember guys the real 365, 362xp, 372xp are no longer being made by husky for our market (discontinued models). I for one am not ready for strato EPA models.

I've looked for one of these to just look at and tear down as MCW did, but it had a min order of a 100+ units at a time.

I also buy car parts at Advance auto and NAPA. Guess where they are made. China 90% of the time. It's all around us already.

 

[MCW]

Just a guess, but I'm pretty sure you'll find all of the brand-name saws' designs are patented. One of the problems with patent enforcement- within China particularly- is that there's so much money to be made, the government itself isn't friendly to those who try to bring suit.

Aimed at you? Maybe; I didn't buy one.

Calling somebody a dickhead that you know is all good fun.
Calling somebody a dickhead that you do not know is the opposite.
Somehow I knew this thread would attract people who would turn it personal, instead of looking at the big picture.

I can see the moral dilemma in considering buying one of these saws. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I can understand the attraction if the genuine article were as expensive as they are in Australia. I'm actually more interested in the other angle, how some Chinese exporters are starting to move away from ultra cheap crap and starting to put more effort into building quality copies that might actually rival the originals in performance and durability.

You're right. It's OK for guys in the US to say blah blah about buying one of these but let me put it into context. We have other Chinese saws in Australia that are half the quality of this saw for the same price. These saws are not being marketed as a Husky 365 and can be sold for less than 1/3 the cost of a genuine 365. Have a good think about it, would somebody who is genuinely in the market for a real Husky 365 but one of these? Of course they wouldn't. If anybody in the US wants to have a go at me about buying Chinese then maybe they should look at the Chainsaw gear and stock in my shed. I've been supporting the US more than Australia.

As mentioned, the remaining saw I have is to test the 372XP BB kits on that I am importing. It is not for sale.

 

[MCW]

Just remember guys the real 365, 362xp, 372xp are no longer being made by husky for our market (discontinued models). I for one am not ready for strato EPA models.

I've looked for one of these to just look at and tear down as MCW did, but it had a min order of a 100+ units at a time.

I also buy car parts at Advance auto and NAPA. Guess where they are made. China 90% of the time. It's all around us already.

Yup. If anybody thinks that little old me is going to change the Chinese playing field by buying a couple of saws then they have another thing coming. It's already changed without my help.
That goes for anybody buying rim sprockets (most are Chinese made), anybody buying aftermarket saw components, or anybody buying most things nowadays, including some Stihl line trimmers.

 

[Cut4fun]

Stihl owns Zama carbs of China.

Bet that carb is zama made on the HH 365, just like the zama's on the real huskys.

 

[NeTree]

I can see the moral dilemma in considering buying one of these saws. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I can understand the attraction if the genuine article were as expensive as they are in Australia.

Undoubtedly a vicious cycle.

Just remember guys the real 365, 362xp, 372xp are no longer being made by husky for our market (discontinued models). I for one am not ready for strato EPA models.

I also buy car parts at Advance auto and NAPA. Guess where they are made. China 90% of the time. It's all around us already.

The model may be discontinued; that doesn't necessarily mean the patents are expired.

Auto parts are a whole different game of licensed aftermaket; whether China is actually getting the license, well... who knows.

Calling somebody a dickhead that you know is all good fun.
Calling somebody a dickhead that you do not know is the opposite.
Somehow I knew this thread would attract people who would turn it personal, instead of looking at the big picture.

Nah, we're all well-met. If I was trying to be insulting, you wouldn't have had to ask.

We have other Chinese saws in Australia that are half the quality of this saw for the same price. These saws are not being marketed as a Husky 365 and can be sold for less than 1/3 the cost of a genuine 365.

So they're Chinese designed and made, and they suck? I don't see your point.

My issue isn't with where it's made; I despise knock-offs. To me it's ripping off other peoples' work.

 

[NeTree]

whats up with your www.netree.org link in your sig?

Long story, mate.

 

[stig]

I'll toss this into the discussion.
A lot of the saws that you guys use are considered not good enough by professional timberfallers here.

Apart from Stihl, Husqvarna and the red version of Husqvarna, there may be one or two cheapskates running dolmar.

That is it.

No Echo, Oleo Mac whatever in the woods here.

 

[MCW]

So they're Chinese designed and made, and they suck? I don't see your point.

What I was trying to say is that there are already Chinese saws on the market in Australia for around the same price as these 365 knock offs could be sold at, yet they are nowhere near the quality of these saws.

Stihl owns Zama carbs of China.

Bet that carb is zama made on the HH 365, just like the zama's on the real huskys.

I think the carbies on these saws would more than likely be a Zama knock off. Apart from the Carlton chain that came with these saws I'd be pretty sure everything else is a copy.

I'll toss this into the discussion.
A lot of the saws that you guys use are considered not good enough by professional timberfallers here.
Apart from Stihl, Husqvarna and the red version of Husqvarna, there may be one or two cheapskates running dolmar.

That is it.

No Echo, Oleo Mac whatever in the woods here.

Same out here and this is the same situation in any professional logging circles throughout the world. However the Dolmar 7900's are starting to get a bit of a following with the odd professional loggers in Canada and the US and are more than keeping up as far as reliability goes. Not sure why you used the term "cheapskates running Dolmar" though? How many of them have you run? The 7900's are excellent and well built saws. In fact their HD Filter Kit is the only non oiled filter setup in saws above the 372XP (apart from the Stihl Extreme Conditions Filter kit sold only in South Africa and Australia) that can keep some of our hardwood dust at bay. My 200T, MS660, 390XP, 390XPG, and 3120 will not keep our finer wood dusts out without the use of filter oil (not a real biggy on the 200T as it rarely cuts dead wood). The Dolmar HD kits have kept anything at bay that I've thrown at it.

Once saws in the 90cc class are needed it's nothing but 390XP, 395XP, and MS660's. For good reason too as they are all excellent saws.
Nobody has suggested that these 365's would be used by professional timberfallers though.

Hey I'm not a fan of knock offs either and am starting to get a feeling that people are misunderstanding this thread. All I have done is presented a thread about a particular Chinese saw that I happened to come across by chance. I don't really appreciate people pointing the finger at me about purchasing a saw such as this as I have a pretty large stable of genuine pro saws. I haven't given a real indication of my costs and nor will I however just the freight component of this saw was around 50% of the total cost. I am not importing container loads of these saws to flood the market or anything remotely like that. I sold one of the two 365's to a mate and the other one was only bought to test BB kits on. I was not going to pay USD$1400 odd to buy a genuine 365 for this purpose.
Regardless I think many people have probably appreciated this thread for what it is and may or may not know I was actually asked by a fellow member here to start this thread like I did on another chainsaw forum. I should have predicted the same responses.

 

[stig]

I used the term Cheapskates because Dolmars are cheaper here and sold by hardwarestores etc.

I should not have used a derogative term, sorry.

I'll hide behind my usual excuse:"English is not my native language"

 

[MCW]

I used the term Cheapskates because Dolmars are cheaper here and sold by hardwarestores etc.

I should not have used a derogative term, sorry.

I'll hide behind my usual excuse:"English is not my native language"

No worries Stig and sorry for my misunderstanding. I'm used to seeing the 7900's being bashed by Stihl and Husky heads and I get a bit defensive sometimes

Unfortunately when Makita took over Dolmar they haven't done the brand any real favours. In Australia we can no longer get genuine Dolmars but only the Makita branded versions. Sadly any hardware store can order somebody a Makita chainsaw yet are not able to offer any form of backup at all. Until I asked most didn't even know Makita "make" chainsaws and unfortunately when the vast majority of people here the term "Makita" they associate it with Chinese tools.

 

[stig]

As a professional logger my saws are my primary tools, so I don't look at the price at all when I buy them.

A 90cc saw last me about 3 years and a 70 cc about 2, so a few $ more or less initially doesn't matter.

What I look for is the best tool I can get and even more, the best back-up.

Husqvarna and their red twin seem to be dropping the pro-market here and concentrating on homeowners and firewood cutters.
And there is no way I'd buy a Jonsered anyway, It is a complete johe that they keep the brand alive IMO.

I have a VERY good Stihl dealer and since I'm a valued costumer he has several times made Stihl repair something ( Changing carbs, mainly) for free, long after the varranty was gone.

About the carbs, I hope Stihl gets on top of that problem soon. It is the only flaw in what is otherwise great saws.

Let us hope and pray that Stihl stays a family owned busines and doesn't get bought up by a manufacturer of vacuum cleaners.
That sure hasn't done Husqvara any good.

 

[18 stoner]

I'll toss this into the discussion.
A lot of the saws that you guys use are considered not good enough by professional timberfallers here.

Apart from Stihl, Husqvarna and the red version of Husqvarna, there may be one or two cheapskates running dolmar.

That is it.

No Echo, Oleo Mac whatever in the woods here.

Same here Stig but probaly without the Dolmar.

 

[Cut4fun]

The 7900's are excellent and well built saws. In fact their HD Filter Kit is the only non oiled filter setup in saws above the 372XP (apart from the Stihl Extreme Conditions Filter kit sold only in South Africa and Australia) that can keep some of our hardwood dust at bay. My 200T, MS660, 390XP, 390XPG, and 3120 will not keep our finer wood dusts out without the use of filter oil (not a real biggy on the 200T as it rarely cuts dead wood). The Dolmar HD kits have kept anything at bay that I've thrown at it.

You might want to try the Outerwears HD stihl filter slip over. They also have a pre-fliter that slips over the outer recoil to keeps the stuff out of there too.
If you need help with part # etc for the HD Outerwears prefilter cover, just let me know.

 

[Cut4fun]

Here is the Outerwears HD pre filter HD stihl outerwear pre-filter

Outerwears Recoil pre-filter

 

[Magnus]

I see that you are interested and wish to learn a bit of everything. This is a good thing. But there is a lot that is involved in this, a lot more than you know. Most things that can be said about this copy saw thing is not you addressed to you a person, but as a consumer/buyer in general.
I'll try to explain, but it is not my strong side.

You should know that even though there are many copy saws sold the biggest seller of commercial grade saws is Elux/HVA today. A lot of commercial grade saws are made and sold in North America.
These saws are developed, tested and sold under guidelines/rules and laws.
Copy saws isn't.

When looking at this from a bigger point of view, the consumers will not gain anything on copy saws.
It is not first time this happens in larger scale, likely not the last and consumers will get to pay as usual in the end.

Copy saws are ordered to be cheep. They could be good, but price would be different.
The word "good" contain a lot of things, mostly the things that are costly, quality checks, testing, developing, service nets, feedback, progress, marketing, parts supply.....

Hey come on Magnus, I have 3 real Huskies, 2 real Stihls, and 3 real Dolmars (plus others).
This saw was not warm (not sure where you got that idea unless of course you're comparing the weather here to your winter?) and had actually just been pulled down and reassembled. It hadn't been started since reassembly. It has actually started on the 4th pull basically every time so far.
My Stihls start on the 4th or 5th pull when cold, as do my Huskies, and as do my Dolmars. If they are meant to start first or second pull than they must all be faulty
This 365 is certainly no joke mate and if you saw it in your own hands you most certainly would not be laughing at it's quality. Remember that there are many saw manufacturers in China and the vast majority are definately junk as I've seen many of them over the years. These 365 copies most certainly aren't.

Cold weather is under 10c acc to Husqvarna. From clothes and scenery I bet your temp was warmer.
I am pretty experienced around saws and repairs. I can see a thing or two here and there. The first 3 pulls you did could be avoided very easily.
You have a new saw there.
You might enjoy and be happy with your 365. As I said, this copy model model I have not seen yet.
You can't copy it straight of and say it is as good as the material and parts used are not the same.

But if you had a bit more knowledge and experience with saws you would know 8 pulls is a lot, when when rebuilt, or especially when rebuilt. I have not seen your copy 365, but I promise you it will not perform as a 365. Your video did not make me doubt this opinion.

I knew this thread would touch the odd nerve Remember that this thread was not started to convince people to buy a non-genuine 365, it was started to open a few people's eyes and get people talking - it's certainly done that. I made it clear at the start that I didn't want this to turn into a slinging match like it did on AS when I started a similar thread. In the last 3 odd years I have spent over USD$30,000 on US sourced saws and chainsaw gear for both business and personal use. It is fair to say that I have looked after the "genuine" chainsaw industry more than most.

This is not very odd. There is a lot of feelings involved, not to mention opinions and attitudes as well in this kind of dealings. Discussions is a good thing if there is a point to it and some experience or facts behind opinions. By raising Questions and discussions we all can learn more and faster from each other.
I see people come with tears as they feel cheated after a purchase. I get to hear the endless defenses and BS surrounding these deals and have the great pleasure of parts searching.

As far as warranty goes, why would I need it? I can fully pull down and rebuild a saw no problem and apart from one local Stihl dealer the term "service" is non existant with other dealers in the area. The local Husky dealer took over 2 months with a simple warranty service on my 3120 and then had the hide to have a cheap shot at me how I must own a grinder (as the chain was freshly ground on the 42" bar - a chain grind is standard fair whether it needs it or not and he'd have slugged me another $20 for it). In fact if I did indeed ever sell these saws I would cover them with my own warranty. I am very confident that they'll hold together and as yet have seen no reason why they wouldn't adequately hang together for most part time users.

I would NEVER recommend a saw like this to a professional user but if they wanted one I think they'd be surprised at how good they are.

Warranty is like a insurance built in the price of your saw. It is something that can help you when something not your fault happens.
And it do happen on all saws. Design flaws, products tested in field, sub supplier screwups and a hole lot more.

When you leave a saw at a service place you have the standards set by the company to lean on. Without it, you stand eye to eye with the repair guy.
Here the dealers get educated and they learn from factory what is the best solutions and how to go about solving a problem.

Developing saws and service networks is no picknick.

 

[Magnus]

I have spent quite some time doing searches and talking trying to find out more of these copy saws and who really stand behind it.
Investor company provide the green and take it back with good profits.
It is a corporate maze and ceo's left and right that likely don't even exist.

But this subject is a lot bigger than individuals and saw models.
This discussion is bigger it concerns market and the future players in it. It is nothing new, but still has yet to be addressed.

A bit of history is needed and knowledge of chainsaw markets and its brands/makers.

 

[MCW]

I won't quote everything you've said here Magnus as it would fill up space uneccessarily.
I think you are underestimating my saw experience, intelligence, and knowledge of the bigger picture (I have a chainsaw and tree felling business if you didn't know). I have spent hundreds of hours on chainsaws, I have forestry qualifications, and have logged in excess of 10,000 trees. I am not some backyard moron who doesn't know how to run, start, or service saws. Your service/warranty comments are null and void in this case as I am the owner, operator, and service agent for this saw! Instead of trying to make me out to be the bad guy, venture a bit deeper. You are using me as a scapegoat because you can't find where the other 10,000 copies of this saw have been sold. I don't even know who makes these saws (my Chinese supplier sourced them for me) but rest assured, I'm not the reason they started copying and selling this particular 365, a large market existed prior to my measly purchase.
I'm not here to tread on any toes but I'm also not here to be treated like a stupid little child.
All I did was purchase 2 chainsaws, sell one to a mate, and keep one for myself. I started a thread here for the benefit of members, not myself, who can see for themselves that here is one Chinese saw that actually isn't crap.
For your interest I sponsor AS as I like that site and it also has a number of Australian member who are customers of mine. When these saws actually arrived I was highly doubtful of their quality but was quite surprised.
I mentioned this to a few Australian AS members not for sales' opportunites, but as a interested chainsaw enthusiast. They were very interested (not in purchasing any but in the actual technical aspects of this saw) just like most genuine saw enthusiasts should be. I started this thread so you guys could have a look and comment, not actually single me out as the whole reason China is taking over the world. The same thing played ut on AS. The thread started off nicely, got nasty, and I ended up basically unsubscribing from my own thread. I made it clear in my earlier posts that I didn't want this thread to spiral into a "MCW is a saw traitor" type mentality as I am most certainly not one. I have about $20,000 worth of pro model non Chinese saws here to back that up.

You are correct with the temperature here being more than 10°c. When you mentioned cold I generally percieve that to mean a saw that has not been run and "warmed up". I would like you to ellaborate on your "first 3 pulls could have been avoided" comment. I don't know everything but haven't heard that one before. If you could have started that saw with less pulls (or all my pro saws for that matter) then I'm all ears I could actually learn something here!

 

[MCW]

Here is the Outerwears HD pre filter HD stihl outerwear pre-filter

Outerwears Recoil pre-filter

Hi mate.
Unfortunately the Outerwear pre-filters have been tried here by certain firewood cutters I know and they haven't cut the mustard, particularly on dead Redgum which alongside Pink Gum is the worst trees I've cut. The Dolmar HD kits are the only filter setup I own that will keep the dust out successfully and in our conditions are the best filter system I've come across. Even to the point that I've considered mating a Dolmar filter element to my 390XP. Tight fit but possible with a bit of work.
The 660 I have has the HD Stihl filter kit which is keeping the dust at bay far better than any non oiled Husky HD filters I've tried but is still having small wood dust particles getting through the filter media.