Charging Day Rates - 3 Man Crew?

[HeathyOaks]

For you smaller companies or guys who started out solo or with only a little bit of help, is charging day rates and half day rates an easier for the start up company?

I am starting small with only me as a climber, a buddy from my old company as a climber, and one guy on the ground piling and carrying brush to the chipper. I'm starting up with a truck, trailer, small 7" chipper / dump box.

With my expenses, I'm coming up with $1,800.00 per day for 3-guys. $900.00 for half day jobs. Sound reasonable, for a market saturated with Honduran, Guatuamalan, and Hispanic climbers?

 

[flushcut]

Sounds reasonable. But it’s the small/tiny jobs you need to establish a minimum charge. Some jobs you will find one company will charge $$$ and take half a day and you may be able to do the job in less than an hour so you need to charge a minimum, of say 1/4 day.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Damn, wish I could charge money like that. Lucky to see 1000-1200 for a 3man and kit. Location, location location.....
Once a lift is involved... 1500.00

 

[Mick!]

Is that what you’re charging, or what you’re thinking of charging?

 

[cory]

Sounds high to me given your equipment set up, but if you can get it, get it

 

[SeanKroll]

So much depends on market, skill set match to the work, and equipment match to the work.

If a person is trying to be charging a lot for a BC1800 and 33,000 gvwr chip truck for pruning small ornamentals, or having to park the truck and chipper at a end of a long, long drag where a smaller set-up can get right up to the tree, there is mismatch.

I commonly fell trees that others would dismantle, or solo dismantle trees that other people would over complicate. At a job working next door to another company, I watched 3 people take longer (and with unnecessary risks) on a no- cleanup job, undeveloped site/ forest job than I would have done solo.





@healthyoaks, What are you and crew best at doing? What are you competent at doing? What are you strongly challenged to do? What is your kit able to do?

What is your market like?

 

[HeathyOaks]

A lot of quick replies, sorry caught me off guard. I've been working for local companies for 5 years. 3 years with one company, 2 with another. I learned my pricing working with these two companies. A truck, trailer, and 4 guys, we averaged $2,500.00 per day per the Arborist Bids. With a Vameer Chipper and Chipper truck we averaged $3,500.00 per day. On a really good day, with a good bid, or a removal job, a $5,000.00 day wasn't out of the question. Granted, there were many days the Arborist shot us in the foot. A $7,000.00 job that should have took two days, took three days.

The price I'm coming up with is for two fast climbers and one guy piling and dragging to the chipper. On many jobs ($7k or bigger) where there are lots of trees to climb or tough hills to climb with the brush I plan to use a Dingo with a grapple.

My set-up will be an F-250, pulling a 20 ft. trailer, with 1,600 lb chipper mounted on the front of the trailer, blowing into the middle of the trailer that dumps. The back space of the trailer will be used for either bigger pieces of wood or for a mini skid. This set-up should go in a lot of places where a chipper truck won't go. The market I'm targeting is a mix of VERY HIGH END 1 to 5 million dollar homes, to 50% Ranches and Big acreages of land where day rates are more common.

A lot of the jobs in the city where the high dollar properties are need moderate rigging techniques due to the tile roofs and so forth when around the houses. Most of the ranches and properties in the country are tons of small live oak's that can be cleaned from the ground with a pole. The removals I want to charge by the job instead of by the hour.

The minimum I haven't got figured out yet. My old company was a $350.00 Minimum for 1 hour to show up. These smaller jobs were usually done by truck and trailer crew who drove around doing the small jobs. They would usually have about 5 to 8 of these scheduled in a day. I may charge a similar minimum of one hour, and do these smaller jobs as Saturday Jobs for the guys who want to work.

 

[flushcut]

All the companies that I know that are getting 4500-5000 a day are rolling with heavy iron. 19” chipper, two 20yard chip trucks, Cat 299d, mini skid, quad axle dump, log truck with loader, 80+hp stumper, and an 80’ spider. Just saying.

 

[HeathyOaks]

All the companies that I know that are getting 4500-5000 a day are rolling with heavy iron. 19” chipper, two 20yard chip trucks, Cat 299d, mini skid, quad axle dump, log truck with loader, 80+hp stumper, and an 80’ spider. Just saying.

I'm guessing this has something to do with your area. My first company, $4k to $5k was easily obtainable with (2) efficient climbers and (2) guys on the ground with a truck / vameer. The company I just left, sends two chippers to jobs as you just mentioned, with mini skid and 8 guys, and they are $8,000.00 per day. Perhaps our prices are different because of location. Our primary area of work is West Austin. The median household cost is 3.2 Million. Every house is surrounded with Oaks whom many are crazy about. Another big factor is in the Arborist pricing the job.

We've had days that we finished a $6,200.00 job in a day with (4) guys. We were not 8 to 5 either. We worked until the job was finished. Some days finishing means 7 pm or 8 pm. We don't leave job sites for lunch neither.

 

[HeathyOaks]

All the companies that I know that are getting 4500-5000 a day are rolling with heavy iron. 19” chipper, two 20yard chip trucks, Cat 299d, mini skid, quad axle dump, log truck with loader, 80+hp stumper, and an 80’ spider. Just saying.

Now that I re-read your post. $5k a day, for two chippers, 19" Chippers, a log truck with a loader, and 80 hp stumper, and an 80' spider, that's incredible. We ran a total of (5) Chipper Trucks when I was working for this company. We had 32 Trucks and Trailers. And trucks and trailers rain a total of $2,500.00 per day routes. 90% of jobs were finished each day. I'm really shocked my companies only charging $5k in a day while using a spider lift, (2) 20 ft chip box trucks, and a log truck with a lift.

Truck and trailers get in a lot of tight places and a 4 man crew here who is busting it, is easily good for $2500.00 here. This was everyday life for truck and trailer crews.

 

[lumberjack]

A half day job pretty well messes up a full day.

There are far better margins in bids and minimums, for me.

 

[gf beranek]

20 years ago, in 2003, the Egger Beever Tree Service in Ft. Bragg was charging $1,000 a day for a 3 man crew and chipper. Within a 15 mile radius on the coast. The need for a climber varied by the job and pay was based on experience and negotiable.

I don't know what the Egger Beever is charging today, but I'll bet it's double that.

 

[flushcut]

Now that I re-read your post. $5k a day, for two chippers, 19" Chippers, a log truck with a loader, and 80 hp stumper, and an 80' spider, that's incredible. We ran a total of (5) Chipper Trucks when I was working for this company. We had 32 Trucks and Trailers. And trucks and trailers rain a total of $2,500.00 per day routes. 90% of jobs were finished each day. I'm really shocked my companies only charging $5k in a day while using a spider lift, (2) 20 ft chip box trucks, and a log truck with a lift.

Truck and trailers get in a lot of tight places and a 4 man crew here who is busting it, is easily good for $2500.00 here. This was everyday life for truck and trailer crews.

Yeah there is no way in hell I am loading a trailer like that nor would I pay employees to load a trailer. Unless I am trimming an apple tree and the burn pile is less than a mile away.
I have to say that if I am pulling up to my customers thirty-nine million dollar house house with a trailer expecting to do tree work I’d be laughed off the property.
If you can get a good price then more power to you. Good luck!

 

[Nutball]

Around here, many big rich house owners take the cheapest bid. Either that, or they would recommend the same guy, who I happened to work for, and all he had was a little 2x4 pickup.

 

[flushcut]

I suppose it has to do with how rich they are. One or two million in the bank I suppose they would go with the cheap guy but 100 million plus plus folks want you in and out as quickly as possible and leaving the property like it never happened. Which costs money and most don’t care how much it costs because they just write it off.

I have one customer who planted woodland wild flowers at $17 a square foot and planted 3 acres. I also had (he passed on) a customer who planted 170,000 tulip bulbs every year and after flowering would have them all dug out and give them away. This is the billionaire crowd writing off 40 million annually on property maintenance expense.

The ones that think they are rich are the cheap ones but the ones that really have the dough don’t really care. They leave that to the handlers.

 

[Bermy]

I can endorse that experience.

 

[WoodCutr]

ive got a 12" chipper, 55ft bucket, climber mini skid, pickup, 14ft dump trailer, 2 or 3 man crew usually
the bucket is used on about 10% of jobs, so it doesnt even count on my equipment lineup
for 2 man crew and equipment is $1800 a day, 3 man crew is $2400 a day roughly, add $100/load for log disposal at local mulch yard
if I bring a crane my minimum is around $3300 a day
I close about 60% of my jobs, started upping rates some so I work less days a week and still pay my bills tho, starting to head towards $2400 a day for 2 man crew

as nutball said, the rich customers NEVER want to pay any decent amount of money, ive had them turn down $600 half day jobs because "he cant afford it", that or they find stuff wrong with the work and try to refuse payment

 

[cory]

If your numbers are accurate and work is flowing in, imo you should buy some brandy new equipment and replace some or all of your stuff that is more or less continually breaking down (according to many of your posts). If you've got the work, new stuff pays for itself with no question.

$2400 for 2 men is super duper high imo so if you can get more power to you

 

[WoodCutr]

If your numbers are accurate and work is flowing in, imo you should buy some brandy new equipment and replace some or all of your stuff that is more or less continually breaking down (according to many of your posts). If you've got the work, new stuff pays for itself with no question.

$2400 for 2 men is super duper high imo so if you can get more power to you

im working on it, currently owe $26K, thatll be paid off this year, im working on buying that Giant but itll be next year, also trying for a 60-70 ton crane, grapple truck and a spider lift
all in all $400K and I should be set on equipment for the next 5-10 years
spent too much money last year care free and its hurting this year, but not terribly, yet

 

[flushcut]

You can always walk away from the cheap potential customers. My price is my price. I have bills to pay but the amount of work stays the same. If they want cheaper then less work gets preformed. You want 600$ less then you get to keep the logs and chips. And them saying “I’ll pay cash” means nothing to me.

 

[WoodCutr]

You can always walk away from the cheap potential customers. My price is my price. I have bills to pay but the amount of work stays the same. If they want cheaper then less work gets preformed. You want 600$ less then you get to keep the logs and chips. And them saying “I’ll pay cash” means nothing to me.

this, 100%
I just bid a 7600 dollar job for some peeps ive worked for before, the lady said "too much, ive given people your info, can I have a discount"
to which I replied "the dump, crane, stump company, and my employees dont care about that, and I have to pay them the same"
to be fair it was going to be $3500 JUST in stump grinding, so theres that

 

[lumberjack]

…$2400 for 2 men is super duper high imo so if you can get more power to you

I get I’m reasonably well equipped (no crane), but that’s bottom of the barrel/easy partial day for myself and a helper. Add a crane and out minimum is ~$3k with a normal “good” day doing $5k+

 

[cory]

Yup lotta mighty nice equipment. Looks like a Guiness record for gear fitting on a trailer!

I take it you don't miss the grapple saw?

 

[lumberjack]

😂 Almost like the trailer and the mini were bought with a specific purpose! 😂

I don't overly miss that grapple saw, but by the same token I wouldn't mind having one that was paid for if I was busier with tree work and could rationalize the capital tied up in it. As it stands, I can rent a boom truck now at good rates and that's one less truck for us to strive. I still have my Freightliner hook lift that requires a CDL driver as well.