Billy Ray's Back-Cut First Extreme Leaner.

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I seldom ever use wedges when pulling a tree. I know they get recommended for backup, but when pulling they loosen up immediately and the back cut gap gets large quick. There might have been cases where I should have used a wedge too, but things worked out. Two pull lines, one to cover side lean too isn't so common, to maybe get a tree unlocked from another, but on occasion.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of 1 1/2 ton 4x4 chip truck with load of chips pulling off of pavement with a 3-1.
 
You always have to be aware that the higher you tie a piece on, the slower it will come over. Not always an issue, but on more brittle species & some dead trees, I like them to come over fast. On larger, more awkward pull I use a 10 ton tractor mounted winch. The sheer strength of pull allows for a low tie point & more control.
 
I was thinking that too, Pete, about lower tie points. With a strong enough puller that you are cutting and pulling alternately to get it leaning in the right direction before tripping it, fairly low points of connect can be most suitable.
 
With a big pull & low tie off point there is also a danger of pulling the tree off the stump. It can sometimes by prudent to place your back cut below your face cut (using a conventional face) to prevent this.
 
Nice point to sift out and bring forward, Pete:
(edit i get the prev. too slow deal as consideration but in general ..)
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i'd add..
Pull at or above Center of Gravity(CoG) ;
to rotate CoG on hinge pivot.
Whole deal is to command CoG forcePoint, not let it win.
Tree is just a shape and access to CoG.
Where CoG is within architecture of shape (length x angle to pivot) is all the math, makes all the difference!
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DON'T pull so far below CoG,
that sit down force of CoG given enough leverage it stays put pressing down
as effort then pulls linear/across on stump/hinge pivot.
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Perhaps would say shouldn't cut so much hinge to allow straight motion across,
but i've seen what Pete is talking about(not just in trees/Universal Laws); and in any case , enough hinge or not:
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We want to conjure the rotational leverage force (multiplier) as much as possible;
not the nominal/linear force (non-multiplier).
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Roll CoG forward on pivot thru spar architecture/ bring it with you;
don't linear bottom out from under CoG force getting CoG to more sit down/leave behind..
 
pete mctree said:
You always have to be aware that the higher you tie a piece on, the slower it will come over. Not always an issue, but on more brittle species & some dead trees, I like them to come over fast. On larger, more awkward pull I use a 10 ton tractor mounted winch. The sheer strength of pull allows for a low tie point & more control.
Click to expand...

Good tip, I did not know that.
 
Since I don't climb, the tie in is always low. Cut the notch, get the back cut in far enough to set a wedge, have the truck take the slack out and stop. Do a quick check, is everything the way I want it. Keep going on the backcut slowly, knock the wedge in.......get to the hinge point and motion for the pull.

Ed
 
Ed L said:
Since I don't climb, the tie in is always low. Cut the notch, get the back cut in far enough to set a wedge, have the truck take the slack out and stop. Do a quick check, is everything the way I want it. Keep going on the backcut slowly, knock the wedge in.......get to the hinge point and motion for the pull.

Ed
Click to expand...

Sir, 60' throw of a $25 throw bag setup is seriously doable and serious trick for tool kit.
Can even approximate with a mechanix rag full of dirt on small usually yellow 'pee line' to then draw up real line.
Don't want anything in bag that would bounce form target , but rather deform/smoosh and fall in to target.
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More $ for more power as MB shows;
But you mite be able to triple your leverage for free...
 
100% agreed Mr. Spyder. To me it's not even a trick, more like a staple of my tool kit, like, If i forget the big shot I might as well have forgotten the saws.

One thing I'd add, that everyone here already knows, but that is still super useful; You don't have to isolate the TIP, and can just run the line through SRT base anchor style, tie it off, even wrap the trunk a few times if you like, and still have all the useful leverage. There is the possibility of spinning the tree off the stump, if your line is not directed down nice and close to the trunk like it should be, but the same can be said for an isolated tie off I guess.
 
Only problem there is more compression on the stem. I do it all the time with no consequence, but it seems like you would increase the chances of a BC with that method. Pure speculation of course...
 
I suppose that's possible with a real heavy pull. Then again, you are choking a bull rope around the trunk, so a few more wraps to lock it all off couldn't hurt.
 
theTreeSpyder said:
Sir, 60' throw of a $25 throw bag setup is seriously doable and serious trick for tool kit.
Can even approximate with a mechanix rag full of dirt on small usually yellow 'pee line' to then draw up real line.
Don't want anything in bag that would bounce form target , but rather deform/smoosh and fall in to target.
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More $ for more power as MB shows;
But you mite be able to triple your leverage for free...
Click to expand...

I hear you.....need to be more open to different ways to make my life easier.

Ed
 
Levi said:
Only problem there is more compression on the stem. I do it all the time with no consequence, but it seems like you would increase the chances of a BC with that method. Pure speculation of course...
Click to expand...
Odds are slim I'd say of pulling a tree that's already got that kinda head lean.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 
I think I'd rather pull bigger rad back leaning trees with a puller, than smaller ones, because you have all that wood to work with to get them leaning right. Smaller trees not so, but have the advantage of less weight. I think somebody smart said that almost every tree is different.
 
My first thoughts are that anything odd shaped or crooked will get pulled with 2 lines. But I don't have powered equipment or a crew.
 
I use a pair of 8 foot gunning sticks .Just two 8 foot firing strips with a nail for a pivot point .It will go right where you point it .
 
Levi said:
Only problem there is more compression on the stem. I do it all the time with no consequence, but it seems like you would increase the chances of a BC with that method. Pure speculation of course...
Click to expand...
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i guess too much of anything can be bad; especially in bad wood
But in general would expect compression to:
A> give firming effect?
B> be inconsequential to the downward weight of the whole tree?
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i like over the top, down the back as more of a cradling of the whole spar than all force at 1 point of pull,
i think would give more of a rotational than linear pull force expressed.
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In tops that can flex to mebbe spring load some,as more bracing thru the bend than to 1 point.
(when spring unloads takes pressure off , just like lifting off from wedge) .
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Also , after fall, if finished hitch on backcut side, can find easier to get line clear (is on top at end of spar, not under spar/brush in middle!



No rule says can't belt and suspenders;
rope & wedge backup would be my choice on anything not a sure/sure shot.
Mostly rope, makes wedge easier.
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