Best way to work spars

M

Matagorn

Treehouser
Joined
May 8, 2020
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69
Location
Connecticut USA
Hi everyone. First time on the forum. Excited to be here! I love talking, and learning about our trade and the many tools and techniques that are available. Respect to everyone in this business. Ive been in the industry for twenty plus years now, but not always as a primary climber. Wondering what you all recommend for best safety, stability, and comfort when chunking down a spar? Assume that there is no suitable tie in point on an adjacent tree. My least favorite thing is spurring down thin wobbly, twisty, spars.
 
Welcome man! I'm sure others have better advice, just saying hi! I'm not a fan of working spars either, it's all spurs and flipline work with the obvious climb line backup.
 
Get an SRT hybrid devise like a Hitch Hiker, Rope Runner, Akimbo, or Bull Dog Bone. That way, besides your flip line, you can cinch tight to the stem and even hang on it if you are waiting on the ground guys. Quick bail out if you need to self rescue as well should something go wrong. Get some weight off the spikes here and there.
 
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  • #4
CurSedVoyce said:
Get an SRT hybrid devise like a Hitch Hiker, Rope Runner, Akimbo, or Bull Dog Bone. That way, besides your flip line, you can cinch tight to the stem and even hang on it if you are waiting on the ground guys. Quick bail out if you need to self rescue as well should something go wrong. Get some weight off the spikes here and there.
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I love the idea of being able to rest my weight against my central tie in point and of having a quick escape route if necessary. I would like to be able to descend this way until the next cut as well. I’ve heard of some guys choking the spar with a running bowline. I read about someone clipping a carabiner just behind the knot and tying a short line to it to loosen it up and drop it down to the next cut. Have you ever tried that?
 
Matagorn said:
I love the idea of being able to rest my weight against my central tie in point and of having a quick escape route if necessary. I would like to be able to descend this way until the next cut as well. I’ve heard of some guys choking the spar with a running bowline. I read about someone clipping a carabiner just behind the knot and tying a short line to it to loosen it up and drop it down to the next cut. Have you ever tried that?
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I cinch with a carabiner. Spline down. Steel triple locking.
 
Where are you finding triple locking steel?



Welcome @Matagorn
You can tie a RB with a long tail to be pulled for retrieval.

HH2. Dial it in, love it.
 
Welcome Matagorn. I think I've done that a time or two but usually just do a running bowline around the stem with more tail on the bowline. For instance if I'm dropping 10 foot pieces, 10 feet of tail leaves it within reach for the next cut position. (As Sean described above.)

In your opening post you mentioned comfort and thin twisty wobbly spars being your least favorite. First thing that came to my mind is I am always on pole spurs unless there is a reason to not be. Second thing is that when I get into thin and wobbly or long slick bark runs of trunk - or if I just feel spooked because of wind etc., I put a wrap of the flip line around the stem and that makes it more comfortable for me.

I like talking gear and technique too. It's inspiring to add new skills here and there - keeps things fresh and interesting.
 
"I put a wrap of the flip line around the stem and that makes it more comfortable for me."

I'll have remember that.
 
To be 100% on the mark with safety in mind a person would be using Kevins locking clevice rather than chancing side loading a biner right Sean or Cursed? I've got two or three of them to use for that and for false crotches. I just need to get off my lazy and learn to tie a butterfly knot that I know is absolutely right.
 
I'll go ahead and say it, the best way to work a spar is from a lift/aerial platform.

It's been years since I've climbed. For chunking down spars/cutting repetitive short pieces (sucks/takes forever), having a line set to run to the ground and a lanyard was my norm. Friction saver with my normal doubled rope was one option, but for constant resetting, SRT with something like the Trango Cinch or Petzel ID was used. If it was a particularly skinny/smooth trunk, I'd take a wrap with my lanyard.
 
That's an interesting vid Stephen (Cursed) and an aluminum biner. I've always been happy using a steel biner sideways on a spar. It was just a safety conversation thread or two that got me to thinking maybe I should stop. I stopped free climbing until my tie in point, or it got too spooky, like when I first started in tree work. Stopped using non locking flip line snaps like we used to use - and would sometimes look down to double check them and find a move or a twig and move had unsnapped them. I just thought cross loading biners was the next bad habit to get over.

I've been in the trees for 35 or 40 years Matagorn.
 
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  • #17
Merle Nelson said:
That's an interesting vid Stephen (Cursed) and an aluminum biner. I've always been happy using a steel biner sideways on a spar. It was just a safety conversation thread or two that got me to thinking maybe I should stop. I stopped free climbing until my tie in point, or it got too spooky, like when I first started in tree work. Stopped using non locking flip line snaps like we used to use - and would sometimes look down to double check them and find a move or a twig and move had unsnapped them. I just thought cross loading biners was the next bad habit to get over.

I've been in the trees for 35 or 40 years Matagorn.
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Are you saying that you won’t use a steel biner to choke a truck anymore because
CurSedVoyce said:
You can see it at about 6:35 and after about 7:40 in this vid
Click to expand...

thanks for the info and the video
 
No. I do it. I was just second guessing myself because of safety conversations. (If the biner changes orientation and is now loaded across its gate and spine it is weaker.) And there is what seems to be a better and safer method that I want to be carrying the hardware all the time anyway, so I'm still working toward switching over.

www.treestuff.com

Milled Singing Tree Quickie

Developed by Kevin Bingham, the inventor of the Rope Wrench and Rope Runner, the Original Quickie is a locking steel connection that can be used for nearly everything you would use a carabine
www.treestuff.com www.treestuff.com

@kevin bingham do you have any thoughts about safety of choking the spar?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Merle Nelson said:
No. I do it. I was just second guessing myself because of safety conversations. (If the biner changes orientation and is now loaded across its gate and spine it is weaker.) And there is what seems to be a better and safer method that I want to be carrying the hardware all the time anyway, so I'm still working toward switching over.

www.treestuff.com

Milled Singing Tree Quickie

Developed by Kevin Bingham, the inventor of the Rope Wrench and Rope Runner, the Original Quickie is a locking steel connection that can be used for nearly everything you would use a carabine
www.treestuff.com www.treestuff.com

@kevin bingham do you have any thoughts about safety of choking the spar?
[/QUO
Click to expand...
Merle Nelson said:
No. I do it. I was just second guessing myself because of safety conversations. (If the biner changes orientation and is now loaded across its gate and spine it is weaker.) And there is what seems to be a better and safer method that I want to be carrying the hardware all the time anyway, so I'm still working toward switching over.

www.treestuff.com

Milled Singing Tree Quickie

Developed by Kevin Bingham, the inventor of the Rope Wrench and Rope Runner, the Original Quickie is a locking steel connection that can be used for nearly everything you would use a carabine
www.treestuff.com www.treestuff.com

@kevin bingham do you have any thoughts about safety of choking the spar?
Click to expand...
i hear your. I worry sometimes as well, though the steel biners seem to be rated pretty high. That quickie shackle looks promising.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Merle Nelson said:
Welcome Matagorn. I think I've done that a time or two but usually just do a running bowline around the stem with more tail on the bowline. For instance if I'm dropping 10 foot pieces, 10 feet of tail leaves it within reach for the next cut position. (As Sean described above.)

In your opening post you mentioned comfort and thin twisty wobbly spars being your least favorite. First thing that came to my mind is I am always on pole spurs unless there is a reason to not be. Second thing is that when I get into thin and wobbly or long slick bark runs of trunk - or if I just feel spooked because of wind etc., I put a wrap of the flip line around the stem and that makes it more comfortable for me.

I like talking gear and technique too. It's inspiring to add new skills here and there - keeps things fresh and interesting.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Love the gear choices we have today. I was way behind with my gear and techniques. I only recently started incorporating SRT into my ascent possibilities. Great to have as an option. I love learning knots and new ways to apply them as well.
 
I use steel as well. Not that I don't trust aluminum choked on a spar, I just like the weight of steel to toss around.

As far as getting comfortable on skinny, twisting or leaning spars: Alot of it is just being comfortable in hooks and a flipline.

A few tips though, set your choked climbline up to lean into it and not roll underside of the spar for making face cuts.

Otherwise stay on top of the lean, you'll spiral around some on real twisting ones.

Place one gaff higher than the other and use your knee to get a bit more contact and stability.
 
Carabiner choked on , set bight off center to have something to lean against. Shorty thin line to pull down choked carabiner after descending
 
The lanyard / spikes aren't a love affair for me and I always had a hard time to trust them.
Finally I adopted a way to be a little more confident, far from feeling comfy, but at least I can buck a spar without too much fear : the spikes and a wire-lanyard (or a secondary climbline as is, on the Ds) with my main climbline chocked short above the lanyard.
I know that's the contrary of the recommended way for safety, but that gives me some peace of mind, as I can go nowhere if I gaff out. More, the choked line is a stable/trusty point when I lower the lanyard and myself, no more hazard on the move.

Most of the time I buck the spar for firewood lengths, maybe two at once, so my choked carabiner stays at arm reach. If I come down more than one meter, I use my telescopic pole to get it back.
The leaning, twisty spars or the dog-legs are challenging. I deal with them staying on the underside, it's more stable for me and that's what I'm looking for. I tried to stay on the upper side, but no. I fear constantly to loose my balance and take a ride toward the underside. I would absolutely hate that. Plus I have more control of the logs on the hard leaning trunks.

The Hitch Hicker first and now the Akimbo are perfect for a short-choked line. The compactness and ease to adjust are a dream for this application.
I even use in the same way the Zigzag on my secondary climb line, which works surprisingly well in SRT mode all alone. That allows me to buck a long bare axis during a pruning (no gaffs) with my both climblines choked.
 
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