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Newfie
Guest
Really the whole point of the bore cut is for preventing the barber chair in the heavy head leaner.
Barber chair
- Thread starter woodworkingboy
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NeTree
Guest
Yup.
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Gord
Guest
If there is a serious concern of barberchair there's really no reason not to bind up the butt with a dead eye sling or whatever's handy.
It also gives the option of attempting to swing a heavy leaner one way or another without the fear of a barberchair. I've done it many times with good success, it's amazing how far even a weak species will swing away from a heavy lean if the cut is very low (into the root flare) and the butt is bound.
It also gives the option of attempting to swing a heavy leaner one way or another without the fear of a barberchair. I've done it many times with good success, it's amazing how far even a weak species will swing away from a heavy lean if the cut is very low (into the root flare) and the butt is bound.
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NeTree
Guest
Why not just cut it right to begin with and forego all the messing with binding? 
sawinredneck
Treehouser
There was no need to swing it anywhere other than the lean. The lay was perfect, a nice clearing and easy to get to.
Being that it was Oak I really wasn't that worried about barberchair, I have never had a white Oak split on me before.
Now not being a smart azz Justin, but this baffles me a bit, I guess I don't understand the physics. My hinge would have been the about the same either way I would have cut it, in theory.
I made the back cut to where had what I thought was a decent hinge. I probably would have left the same hinge had I bore cut it then wedged it over.
What changes in these two cuts?
Being that it was Oak I really wasn't that worried about barberchair, I have never had a white Oak split on me before.
Now not being a smart azz Justin, but this baffles me a bit, I guess I don't understand the physics. My hinge would have been the about the same either way I would have cut it, in theory.
I made the back cut to where had what I thought was a decent hinge. I probably would have left the same hinge had I bore cut it then wedged it over.
What changes in these two cuts?
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NeTree
Guest
The timing of the loading on the hinge and spar woods changes, for one.
In a straight back cut, the tree builds movement and pressure on the woods before you reach the ideal hinge width.
In a bore cut, the stresses that could set up a barber chair can't be created, because the parts of the stem that cause it are removed from the equation before the tree is allowed to move.
In a straight back cut, the tree builds movement and pressure on the woods before you reach the ideal hinge width.
In a bore cut, the stresses that could set up a barber chair can't be created, because the parts of the stem that cause it are removed from the equation before the tree is allowed to move.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
So it MIGHT not have had time to pull, just broken off?
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NeTree
Guest
Exactly. It would have gone down fast, but still followed the hinge. The bore cut takes out the barber chair wood.
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NeTree
Guest
And FYI, ANY tree with a lean to it can barber chair; and the heavier the lean, the more likely it will, unless you bore it out.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
But back to my original point, the hinge is what I think caused the barberchair. The tree split right on the remaining hinge wood.
If I had made a thinner hinge and bore cut it I can buy this. But the hinge remaining the same I am not getting it.
Sorry if I am being stuborn, just trying to understand it better.
If I had made a thinner hinge and bore cut it I can buy this. But the hinge remaining the same I am not getting it.
Sorry if I am being stuborn, just trying to understand it better.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Sounds then like your hinge was either to thick or improperly formed?
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Well, first and foremost the notch was too small, Iam certain of that.
The hinge was around two and a half inches wide on a 31" tree. Really should have been a strugle to wedge, but with the lean, not so bad.
It was even all the way across the stump and with the notch.
The hinge was around two and a half inches wide on a 31" tree. Really should have been a strugle to wedge, but with the lean, not so bad.
It was even all the way across the stump and with the notch.
Andy, Perhaps your hinge was too thick and you would have had a BC anyway but.....If I understood you correctly the headwind backed around and pushed the tree over. You said you were about to wedge it........but with a head lean you shouldn't have needed to wedge it at all so your hinge was probably way too thick BUT if the wind pushed it the stresses spiked suddenly. If you bore and trip you can wait out the wind until; conditions are as good as you hope to get and then trip it (which would have meant avoiding the changeup in wind situation)
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Seems odd to me that it'd barberchair. Also if you're falling with the lean you shouldn't need wedges.
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NeTree
Guest
That hinge was WAY too thick. One inch would have been plenty. (More hinge is rarely needed, and usually counter productive).
Even with the thick hinge, bore cutting would have made a difference, as Stumper pointed out.
Even with the thick hinge, bore cutting would have made a difference, as Stumper pointed out.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
No, wide face, good eight inches, just not that deep, maybe six inches.
Shoulda just chased it off the stump I guess
Shoulda just chased it off the stump I guess
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
On leaners you definetly want to stay on it if you haven't done a borecut.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Thankfully no one got hurt, and it was just for firewood. Just trying to learn from my mistakes, and I think I am still erroring by a not large enough face cut. I've got to get bigger!!!
I just thought, and I think that got me more than anyting!
I just thought, and I think that got me more than anyting!
Make your facecut bigger, that way you get out of the sapwood and more into heartwood, which is more brittle on oak and therefore tears easier.
Make it a habit to bore any tree, that has lean to it, as well as any tree you fall on windy days.
When you have a lot of practise, you can get away with just cutting from the back on a lot of questionable trees. The trick is to know which ones will blow up, and that knowledge only comes with falling a lot of headleaners.
It doesn't take any longer to bore a tree, so get in the habit of doing so. That way you'll not be so likely to die young or if you are a professional faller, have some forester rip you a new asshole for splitting a 1000$ veneer log.
Make it a habit to bore any tree, that has lean to it, as well as any tree you fall on windy days.
When you have a lot of practise, you can get away with just cutting from the back on a lot of questionable trees. The trick is to know which ones will blow up, and that knowledge only comes with falling a lot of headleaners.
It doesn't take any longer to bore a tree, so get in the habit of doing so. That way you'll not be so likely to die young or if you are a professional faller, have some forester rip you a new asshole for splitting a 1000$ veneer log.
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Graeme McMahon
Guest
It's the wood behind the hinge that causes the barber chair.
If this wood is not cut the trunk will split up, rather than break the remaining wood.
In free grained "white wood", the chance of barbers chair is much higher than in short grain timbers.
When falling alpine timber (i.e. ash), leaving a strong hinge or over-cut scarf will also cause barbers chair.
If this wood is not cut the trunk will split up, rather than break the remaining wood.
In free grained "white wood", the chance of barbers chair is much higher than in short grain timbers.
When falling alpine timber (i.e. ash), leaving a strong hinge or over-cut scarf will also cause barbers chair.
Attachments
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Graeme McMahon
Guest
Some examples of barbers chairs...
First pic shows 1 of the 75 trees cut by a vandal on the tension side, and shows splits up and down from that cut.
Second pic shows first stage of stabilisation, prior to climbing.
First pic shows 1 of the 75 trees cut by a vandal on the tension side, and shows splits up and down from that cut.
Second pic shows first stage of stabilisation, prior to climbing.
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Graeme McMahon
Guest
Second stage of stabilisation is a cable to support the cut tension wood.
Final picture shows a DIY attempt where 'faller' was very lucky. The cut end of the trunk landed about 8' behind the stump. On Mountain ash timber, that could've been 60'.
Final picture shows a DIY attempt where 'faller' was very lucky. The cut end of the trunk landed about 8' behind the stump. On Mountain ash timber, that could've been 60'.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Thank you, that makes sense to me now.
I figured out quick the face was too small, and after seing you're diagram and pics, that is exactly what this tree did.
I pulled the saw out, watched it rock a bit, then just split right up the stem as it fell over!
Stig: thankfully this was just firewood, so no boss. But the getting killed part bothers me a lot!!
I figured out quick the face was too small, and after seing you're diagram and pics, that is exactly what this tree did.
I pulled the saw out, watched it rock a bit, then just split right up the stem as it fell over!
Stig: thankfully this was just firewood, so no boss. But the getting killed part bothers me a lot!!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Vandals? That's amazing. 
