The biting of nails of a certain young inventor.
APTA2.0 - The 64 Special
- Thread starter bonner1040
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The biting of nails of a certain young inventor.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
hahaha...OK. I thought you meant blowing fingers off...my frame of reference is way skewed. 
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
I thought something along the same lines, Gary.
I did some more testing this afternoon. A 12oz bag with 1.75 zing-it, pushed by 140 psi, hits just over 140' with my model 85. That is plenty of height for any tree in my area and quite a bit more than I can get with the Big Shot with the same weight. Having the long straight tube and having it braced on the ground, makes it nice and stable and easy to aim.
It sure would be convenient if 1 psi equals 1 foot with a 12 oz bag.
Dave
It sure would be convenient if 1 psi equals 1 foot with a 12 oz bag.
Dave
PCTREE
Treehouser
Man I hate that 1.75 stuff, always gets tangled up like crazy on me. I rock 2.2 with a 16oz sack 99% of the time so he needs to make it 1 foot per psi with a 16 oz sack
.
I do keep a cube in the box with 12 oz ers and 1.75 as a back up but I hate to use it. If I know I have some tall shots to make I take the cross bow. However I have been putting off a lot of jobs as I await my APTA......
.I do keep a cube in the box with 12 oz ers and 1.75 as a back up but I hate to use it. If I know I have some tall shots to make I take the cross bow. However I have been putting off a lot of jobs as I await my APTA......
pantheraba
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Now I am wondering whether to get a 64 or 85...what's the difference? Shoulder fired vs knee mortar?
pantheraba
More biners!!!
)
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #83
I think you guys are over-rating my engineering and math skills!
The model 85 is much simpler to make, and less expensive, but its a lot longer. You pretty much have to store it where you store a pruner pole. It also does not come standard with an air gauge so in order to accurately fill it you have to use a bike pump. I could add a gauge but do to the shape of the device I believe it would be more likely to break than anything.
(on my first model 85 i promptly banged up the shraeder valve sliding it in and out of the pruner box and subsequently ruined 2 or 3 bike pumps. The shraeder is the hardest part to find believe it or not and once it was broken it made the device un-operable)
Dave, yours was the first 85 with the shroud protecting the air control (shraeder/sniffer) valve, are you feeling that it will be well protected there? Are you keeping it in a pruner box? Barrel permanently attached or removing it for transport? How is the blade sight working out/holding up?
The 85's are very simple, I will always tell people that it can be made pretty simply if you are willing to go find all the parts. Ordering an 85 from me has a few differences from just wrenching the pipe together: the shroud for the valve, the sight, paint, and the lettering on the barrel (we are putting the owners name on the barrel with weld).
The 64 Specials are much shorter and compact, 26-27" vs 54"-78" (the model 85 depending on keeping the barrel attached or not) albeit a bit heavier. The shoulder fire is just that, a bit more intuitive but not necessarily better than the mortar style fire. They also have a ton more capacity in terms of cu/in. I need to do some more testing to find the sweet spot between capacity/psi/pumping time. The current dimensions of the 64 are roughly 27"x12"x6".
The next 64's are going to be made with square tube with for the main body, this will simplify the production process a lot and should speed up my delivery time. I am thinking of dropping the capacity a bit for the next prototypes that go out as well.
The model 85 is much simpler to make, and less expensive, but its a lot longer. You pretty much have to store it where you store a pruner pole. It also does not come standard with an air gauge so in order to accurately fill it you have to use a bike pump. I could add a gauge but do to the shape of the device I believe it would be more likely to break than anything.
(on my first model 85 i promptly banged up the shraeder valve sliding it in and out of the pruner box and subsequently ruined 2 or 3 bike pumps. The shraeder is the hardest part to find believe it or not and once it was broken it made the device un-operable)
Dave, yours was the first 85 with the shroud protecting the air control (shraeder/sniffer) valve, are you feeling that it will be well protected there? Are you keeping it in a pruner box? Barrel permanently attached or removing it for transport? How is the blade sight working out/holding up?
The 85's are very simple, I will always tell people that it can be made pretty simply if you are willing to go find all the parts. Ordering an 85 from me has a few differences from just wrenching the pipe together: the shroud for the valve, the sight, paint, and the lettering on the barrel (we are putting the owners name on the barrel with weld).
The 64 Specials are much shorter and compact, 26-27" vs 54"-78" (the model 85 depending on keeping the barrel attached or not) albeit a bit heavier. The shoulder fire is just that, a bit more intuitive but not necessarily better than the mortar style fire. They also have a ton more capacity in terms of cu/in. I need to do some more testing to find the sweet spot between capacity/psi/pumping time. The current dimensions of the 64 are roughly 27"x12"x6".
The next 64's are going to be made with square tube with for the main body, this will simplify the production process a lot and should speed up my delivery time. I am thinking of dropping the capacity a bit for the next prototypes that go out as well.
Nick, the protective shroud on the fill valve is a must have. It is the only weak link in the design, due to its delicate nature and location. I have two bike floor pumps, one a low pressure, fast fill and another high pressure, slower fill. The fast fill pump caps out at 100 psi and fits into the shroud fine. However the high pressure pump's fill clamp will not fit into the shroud so I have added a rubber truck tire valve extender that works well.
This got me to thinking that it might be best to bury the delicate brass schrader valve in a fully circular shroud with the understanding that a rubber extender will be added. That level of protection would simplify the handling of getting it in and out of the tool box as well as further safeguarding it against field abuse.
Also, I believe that fitting the valve via welding and through the side wall of the pipe will be the most likely point for a pressure related failure. If the schrader valve could be fit inside a reducer T fitting at the base, you would maintain full burst strength on the pipe and remove welding from the assembly process. I do not know if the strength loss from welding the pipe is worth this change or even whether or not it can be done, its just a thought.
One of the beauties of the M85 is in its rugged simplicity. Having the metal protrusion of the blade sight with its sharpness and the weight of the unit behind it I felt jeopardized the other tools it is stored with so I took it off. I will probably fit a simple small diameter tube for sighting through for critical shots; but even with no sight, it is easier to aim and more stable than the Big Shot.
This is a very nice tool to have and am looking forward to finding out just what it can do in the world of line setting.
Dave
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Good answers, guys...thanks to both of you.
I am up for the 64, Nick. Keep me posted.
I am up for the 64, Nick. Keep me posted.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #86
Thanks Dave! Can you show me a picture of a the tire valve extender?
I like the idea of a small diameter pipe on the end, similar to a peep sight on a rifle. I will employ that right a way.
A T reducer to the shraeder is definitely do-able but raises production cost and overall length. The tensile strength on the weld is listed at 70,000lbs so I figure even at half that it seems overbuilt. (the first M85's used a t reducer mid mounted)
What do you think if I tap a 1/4NPT hole into the side of the pipe and screw the shraeder right in?
Designing the shroud I intended for the ends of the V shape to protrude past the valve so that a direct hit even on the open side or top would be protected like a roll cage. My thinking is that as is, it would take a impact by a protruded service to damage it. I never took any pics of yours, maybe you could post a pic of the shroud so people know what we are talking about?
Maybe I should look into a better-than-walmart brand bike pump.
I like the idea of a small diameter pipe on the end, similar to a peep sight on a rifle. I will employ that right a way.
A T reducer to the shraeder is definitely do-able but raises production cost and overall length. The tensile strength on the weld is listed at 70,000lbs so I figure even at half that it seems overbuilt. (the first M85's used a t reducer mid mounted)
What do you think if I tap a 1/4NPT hole into the side of the pipe and screw the shraeder right in?
Designing the shroud I intended for the ends of the V shape to protrude past the valve so that a direct hit even on the open side or top would be protected like a roll cage. My thinking is that as is, it would take a impact by a protruded service to damage it. I never took any pics of yours, maybe you could post a pic of the shroud so people know what we are talking about?
Maybe I should look into a better-than-walmart brand bike pump.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #87
Gary your 64-S hasnt been started yet, but will have many improvements by the time its done. I am just finishing the current 64-S for another member and hope to ship this week.
I still have to fits Pauls in too, as he is passing up so many jobs without!
I still have to fits Pauls in too, as he is passing up so many jobs without!
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Thanks, Nick...I just PP'd you (sounds wrong, doesn't it? 
)..thats PayPal'd not peepeed.
I'll be glad to wait for whatever improvements your are conjuring up in that voodoo head of yours.
Paul has dibs over me so I'm OK -- don't want him to miss too many jobs. I bought more spear gun rubber yesterday for my homemade big shot...it's still going to be my backup for the APTA (what does that stand for, BTW?)
)..thats PayPal'd not peepeed.I'll be glad to wait for whatever improvements your are conjuring up in that voodoo head of yours.
Paul has dibs over me so I'm OK -- don't want him to miss too many jobs. I bought more spear gun rubber yesterday for my homemade big shot...it's still going to be my backup for the APTA (what does that stand for, BTW?)
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #89
Air-Powered-Tree-Access
Maybe something like this that has a nut on the back side would be better? Check out the one at the bottom of the page.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...7C2DA0224DF63E2E58D91416F6F6F89F45CE6&first=1
Dave
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Is there any way to use a trigger type mechanism to release the air pressure rather than a valve to rotate perpendicular to the pipe it is on?
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #92
Gary,
There is. The problem with quick release valves is that they are expensive and only offered up to 1/2"NPT my limited understanding of air pressure dynamics is that the smaller throughput will drastically limit the volume and speed of air travel, thus diminishing the velocity of a 1-1/2" projectile as heavy as a throwbag.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cz1yTCUlmIo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Surveyor has shared some ideas with me but his technical skill is afar above mine I think. I dont really understand what he has built.
Dave,
Are you saying something like this? I would drill a hole insert it and tighten it from the inside?
There is. The problem with quick release valves is that they are expensive and only offered up to 1/2"NPT my limited understanding of air pressure dynamics is that the smaller throughput will drastically limit the volume and speed of air travel, thus diminishing the velocity of a 1-1/2" projectile as heavy as a throwbag.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cz1yTCUlmIo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Surveyor has shared some ideas with me but his technical skill is afar above mine I think. I dont really understand what he has built.
Dave,
Are you saying something like this? I would drill a hole insert it and tighten it from the inside?
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #94
Thanks. "Supply Valve Stem" I have been searching for an official moniker for a long time!
Adam_P
TreeHouse WebMaster
Surveyor is a ninja. That dude makes some seriously cool stuff.
Nick, toss one of those stems on the 85 and make it a shoulder fire!
Nick, toss one of those stems on the 85 and make it a shoulder fire!
surveyor
TreeHouser
Nick, The Air Cannon I have made is from 2" PVC, with a 40" reservoir and a 20" muzzle. The muzzle screws onto the reservoir, trapping a rubber handball behind a reducer fitting. When air pressure is added to the reservoir the rubber ball acts as a QEV valve and projectile, and will release at about 45-50 psi (with my portable compressor this happens in about 2 seconds, and gives about 15-16 shots on one tankfull) and consistently shoots the rubber handball 300+ feet. I have added a small loop of throw line inserted through a toggle nut into a drilled hole in the rubber, with BB's and silicone sealant to make a 6 oz. "throw ball". This throw ball, with target throwline attached, will launch to approx. 100'. You have my admiration for a device that will launch a heavier throw bag to 150'.
Gordon
Gordon
pantheraba
More biners!!!
It is as much fun to watch this thread as it was to watch Paul's Wraptor get developed. Y'all keep at it...good exchanges.
Yes it is...you inventive dudes and the dudes who share their wisdom on our line of work, makes it so much easier for dumb old boy's like myself! Thanks for sharing your ideas and knowlege 
I look forward to trying out one of these air cannons.
I look forward to trying out one of these air cannons.
I once had to pull a few trees right behind to the prime minister's house.
Before setting lines with the Bigshot, I walked over and showed it to the secret service guys that were protecting the house, just to avoid misunderstandings ( and me getting shot, maybe!)
I can just imagine trying to explain the air cannon to those guys
Before setting lines with the Bigshot, I walked over and showed it to the secret service guys that were protecting the house, just to avoid misunderstandings ( and me getting shot, maybe!)
I can just imagine trying to explain the air cannon to those guys
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #100
I avoid the word cannon now. I got some g great advice to distance it from words associated with weapons .
Its a device. Air powered tree access device. It has no other purpose besides line setting.
Its a device. Air powered tree access device. It has no other purpose besides line setting.
