All For One or One for One?

[SeanKroll]

Sam, Yeah, I think that's the whole tcia pitch. I advise customers to hire the cheapest removal bid who is licensed and insured, why not?

Huh?

The cheapest is not the best value.

Who is, percentage wise, most likely to have a problem, the cheapest (rushing, poor safety, increase likelihood of collateral damage), the middle guy, or the most expensive?

Who is most likely to have shady workers, possibly casing the house, the guy playing $10/ hour cash to Itchy and Scratchy the Tweeker brothers as under-the-table "employees" or the guy paying $20/ hour for professional quality employees?

One of my customers took a break from pro prices... The guy left in an ambulance, live or dead, don't know. Hard drugs in the driveway before leaving, after screwing the removal up.

Not licensed and insured, but that's just a purchase, like a bucket truck... anyone can buy one that has the money.

 

[Levi]

If a tree needs to be dismantled and 2 companies have proof of insurance then definitely hire the cheapest! Why not? The reasons you listed... maybe where you live but I would not say that those same odds apply to my market. Anyone who is licensed in my town is at least somewhat legit, a removal is straight forward, if nothing is damaged and all of the wood is out victory is had! Besides, Sean, I do hard drugs on the job site every day, cigs and coffee!

 

[MasterBlaster]

2 companies have proof of insurance then definitely hire the cheapest!

But of course! That's the name of the game.

 

[squisher]

Sure hire the cheapest if all other aspects of the received service will be equal. I doubt that's usually the case. Impact, cleanup, length of time, reliability. Lots of variables for the consumer to consider besides just 'the cheapest'.

I say no union, fend for yourselves.

 

[Altissimus]

First , day of Unions in this country has come and gone , Second , too many independents to make a Union work , just like Logging and Farming

 

[Bodean]

Western Arborists here in California is unionizing.

 

[Altissimus]

Seen this in the Ski biz ... One area managed to Unionize , I think the Machinist's picked them up. After the dues are paid overall not much pull.

 

[Fiddler]

Bunch of guys I worked with on line clearance got called to the NE for work...it was all union there. They loved the money and hated the rules

 

[Altissimus]

IBEW , though a shadow of it's former self ... Still has some power. Everyone needs electricity. How are the Teamster's doing?

 

[Chris E]

I'd fire someone if they were union, just sayin,

I can see the motivation behind OP here but I think this industry has those subtle complexities that may make it difficult. How many groundies will want to fork out for fees etc?

 

[Marc-Antoine]

In France we have a union for the treework, but actually it's like an association of the biggest actors of the trade, speaking with the government, pushing the rules...

Some very motivated arborists tried a few years ago to build up an union for the small guys, either workers or owners (first difficulty: putting both together !), to counterbalance the previous one and to give a voice to all the independents and the small companies.
They got good words and good wishes, but that's about all. Very few people were really ready to invest a massive amount of their time to help sorting it out.
Finally, they gave up.

 

[NickfromWI]

Western Arborists here in California is unionizing.

Tell me more!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JD3000]

See an essay Asimov wrote about reading order of Foundation. Starts with Robot and Empire stories, then Foundation. Some are short stories also but available in compilations now. Herbert's Dune series is great as well. His son has carried on with the storyline too.

Not sure where I sit on Unions but I would like to see tree work being treated more like work done by electricians and plumbers. Education and apprenticeship is required to perform certain work.

In our case, many have some gripes about the Standard writing process that seems to be greatly influenced by the Big Greens and Yellows of the industry but at least we have some Standards however questionable some parts may be. The Safety standard is currently being revised for example. Far too many fatalities still.

 

[Levi]

Alright, well now just about everyone is telling me to read foundation.... is it on Netflix?

I guess on one hand I would not mind a more regulated industry, one where only qualified people can do the work, legally. But hell, I'm doing just fine in the free for all we have now (knock on wood)

I'm not sure how I feel about the tcia, off the cuff I want to say I don't like it, the leadership seems to be very out of touch with the workforce. Have you seen the photos of all the old fat dudes at the winter management conferences in the Caribbean?? According to them however, the tcia companies have far less accidents and fatalities than the non.

 

[SeanKroll]

Likely, all else being equal, companies sinking time and 'tuition' money, and foregone paying-jobs, are almost surely to have less accidents.

 

[Levi]

I only worked for one accredited company and they had just as many accidents if not more than non accredited outfits I worked with. I think there is a misconception in the safety culture that if you teach and train someone the "right" way to do something then they will make good decisions in the field but we all know you can't teach common sense.

 

[Levi]

But yes, not many class room or lecture hall accidents so by default your exposure is lessened, it's safe inside

 

[SeanKroll]

How many accidents have you witnessed, Levi? You'd mentioned most outfits in your area are competent, in regards to the lowest-price-removal discussion.

I bet if you take your sample size up, it would prove out. I certainly could be wrong, theorizing from my kitchen.

 

[Levi]

It's hard to say, Sean. More accidents than I can remember, lots of property damage, very little injury to persons and no fatalities, thank god. A whole lot more close calls. Saw a guy's rope bridge break 10 or 15 feet above ground after a day of climbing 60 plus feet, yikes

When I say folks are competent it's more from a homeowner's perspective. Tree's out, roof and fence intact and no ambulance rides. What more can you ask for? One of the most well known outfits in my area, the accredited one I worked for, had a guy survive a 50ft fall when his lanyard popped over the top of a spar, no cinched line. But they have nice shiny trucks!

 

[Mick!]

I love that this industry is unregulated.

Who wants some authority poking their noses around?

What good would it do? Would it eliminate the "gardeners with ropes and ladders" of course not.
Would it improve standards of tree pruning? Well, what is the single biggest cause of arguments between clients and approved companies? Not taking enough off of course.

As for unionisation, never going to happen.

 

[Levi]

Good points Mick. I am interested to see how this Cali union plays out.

Any info, Deva?

 

[Chris E]

I'm all for fair pay and conditions but unions can end up corrupt, politicized and choke productivity. If a guy is getting paid the equivalent of a burger flipper then maybe that's what he should go and do instead.

 

[DMc]

Laws and regulations are self propagating. One is never enough. I am not a fan.

 

[kevin bingham]

man, plumbers and electricians are regulated in a way that shody dangerous work doesnt happen all that much. I think this has saved countless homes from fires and floods. Why would that be a bad thing in the case of treework. allowing shoddy hack tree work is dangerous for everyone. allowing companies and people to remove and harm trees of significant importance harms the whole society as well. I wish the trees themselves had a Union. For selfish business reasons as well, i wish things were made harder for the hacks.

 

[Mick!]

I think you're being a bit of a drama llama Kevin.