2016 and HitchHiker. can you help me RE: Static lines
- Thread starter r0ck1r0ck2
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I basal tie most of my climbs, it seems to be a minority move, but that's another discussion.
I also like it when my line has more than one branch below it to catch if for some reason the top one failed.
When securing my line at the bottom of the tree, I tie an alpine butterfly, clip a steel carabiner into it, then capture the rope going up the tree in the biner. I am leery of rope on rope for base tie in SRT, sometimes when you are climbing, you unweight the system, depending on how much friction is present the whole thing can go slack and droop, right down to where you have it tied at the bottom. Re-weighting the system then tightens it up again, there is the potential for your bowline to be rubbing and chafing where it is tied around your line going up the tree.
A guy posted a picture on FB of wear in a rope only base tie...ok, he must have been heavy and moving around a lot but it proved the point that it can happen!
I also like it when my line has more than one branch below it to catch if for some reason the top one failed.
When securing my line at the bottom of the tree, I tie an alpine butterfly, clip a steel carabiner into it, then capture the rope going up the tree in the biner. I am leery of rope on rope for base tie in SRT, sometimes when you are climbing, you unweight the system, depending on how much friction is present the whole thing can go slack and droop, right down to where you have it tied at the bottom. Re-weighting the system then tightens it up again, there is the potential for your bowline to be rubbing and chafing where it is tied around your line going up the tree.
A guy posted a picture on FB of wear in a rope only base tie...ok, he must have been heavy and moving around a lot but it proved the point that it can happen!
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #53
but the butterfly/biner can also get unweighted and move about as well?
last night i disassembled my pinto rig loopie to free up the pulley for a chocked retrievable canopy anchor.
my plan is to isolate a TIP and keep a throwline running downstream to retrieve.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ckx02ChiO_E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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the problem of course is isolating the TIP.
i really like ascending on multiple TIPs.
it adds bounce but most assuredly adds piece of mind.
i definitely have been minding the backup TIPs underneath the highpoint but i totally understand stressing that point.
i might set up a basal anchor for fun.
last night i disassembled my pinto rig loopie to free up the pulley for a chocked retrievable canopy anchor.
my plan is to isolate a TIP and keep a throwline running downstream to retrieve.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ckx02ChiO_E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Link to 5 Minutes in
the problem of course is isolating the TIP.
i really like ascending on multiple TIPs.
it adds bounce but most assuredly adds piece of mind.
i definitely have been minding the backup TIPs underneath the highpoint but i totally understand stressing that point.
i might set up a basal anchor for fun.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Just the opposite of me!!!
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #56
and me
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #57
ok
The retrievable choked canopy anchor with throwline to pull and pinto wasn't a disaster but it wasn't the answer.
that much is now painfully clear.
advancing the TIP wasn't happening.
too much muckymuck
i'm think that the downhill weight of the line was too much.
the pulley no doubt helped but the two redirects were a bear. i 'had a really hard time pulling the bugger back down to the ground.
perhaps if i left the climbline touching the ground and not used the throwline i would've had better luck on retrieval.
also the angles weren't helping..
perhaps if my 1st TIP was higher up it would've been better..
ascending still blows me away.
i did 3 full ascents sick as a dog and wasn't all that wiped out.
the SAKA is fantastic.
the Yale 11.7 is as well
my limbwalks and slack tending are great.
you have to be more on top of tending than i am with the hitchclimber because the hitch hiker drops low and the biner can get cross loaded, but that's not all that bad.
i think the singing tree quickie might help with that.
perhaps leaving the neck lanyard attached but that wouldn't be that much fun.
i didn't have to use the SAKA as a 3:1 but i knew it was there... and i knew it works great.
seriously the SAKA as a 3:1 is badass.
i need to get more cough drops then i'm going to try some basal anchors when i get back from the shops.
The retrievable choked canopy anchor with throwline to pull and pinto wasn't a disaster but it wasn't the answer.
that much is now painfully clear.
advancing the TIP wasn't happening.
too much muckymuck
i'm think that the downhill weight of the line was too much.
the pulley no doubt helped but the two redirects were a bear. i 'had a really hard time pulling the bugger back down to the ground.
perhaps if i left the climbline touching the ground and not used the throwline i would've had better luck on retrieval.
also the angles weren't helping..
perhaps if my 1st TIP was higher up it would've been better..
ascending still blows me away.
i did 3 full ascents sick as a dog and wasn't all that wiped out.
the SAKA is fantastic.
the Yale 11.7 is as well
my limbwalks and slack tending are great.
you have to be more on top of tending than i am with the hitchclimber because the hitch hiker drops low and the biner can get cross loaded, but that's not all that bad.
i think the singing tree quickie might help with that.
perhaps leaving the neck lanyard attached but that wouldn't be that much fun.
i didn't have to use the SAKA as a 3:1 but i knew it was there... and i knew it works great.
seriously the SAKA as a 3:1 is badass.
i need to get more cough drops then i'm going to try some basal anchors when i get back from the shops.
Raj
TreeHouser
I just have enough rope for a redirect or two to get to the ground for the climb end. AB and delta, rest of the rope is used to retrieve. In my mind, a redirect can go higher, leaving a "lower canopy anchor", saves me fussin' and fiddlin' and worrin' about suitable a higher TIP.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
thanks again Raj.
That makes sense but always with two sides of rope on the ground correct.?
you'll ascend on a basal then choke off in the canopy once you're up there?
that gets to the basal and chocked that you've mentioned for sketchy trees?
i'll have to try it out tomorrow.
guess the climbs did wipe me out cause i just awoke from sweaty sickman nap.
time to do some vegetating and SRT researching..
That makes sense but always with two sides of rope on the ground correct.?
you'll ascend on a basal then choke off in the canopy once you're up there?
that gets to the basal and chocked that you've mentioned for sketchy trees?
i'll have to try it out tomorrow.
guess the climbs did wipe me out cause i just awoke from sweaty sickman nap.
time to do some vegetating and SRT researching..
Raj
TreeHouser
Yes, both ends to the ground. I don't like dragging around a lot of rope on the climb side, just enough for redirects and getting to the ground.
I'll base tie only if I can't isolate a TIP easily, then switch over to a canopy if it's a take down. Light prune/rec climb I'll keep the basal.
I'll base tie only if I can't isolate a TIP easily, then switch over to a canopy if it's a take down. Light prune/rec climb I'll keep the basal.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #61
cool
it's been weird figuring out how much rope will be needed for redirects.
my instinct is to take waay too much for the climb side tho i think the beauty is having a light line to carry around.
what do you use for a base tie?
it's been weird figuring out how much rope will be needed for redirects.
my instinct is to take waay too much for the climb side tho i think the beauty is having a light line to carry around.
what do you use for a base tie?
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #62
getting some good stuff here.
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Raj
TreeHouser
I like a clove hitch backed up by a few half hitches. I prefer a few wraps for my own peace of mind.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #64
so i finally succeeded with a retrievable choked canopy anchor.
both ends on the ground with a AB and pinto rig in the isolated crotch.
i ascended to the TIP and pulled up the standing end so it just touched the ground then re-tied my AB and got some more rope on the working end as i planned on a pretty long excursion threw many redirects and long limbwalks
when all was said and done i had gone threw 3 natural redirects all about the same height.
the second was about 5' higher than the original TIP.
when i got to the ground both ends were just barely touching the ground, so i think i did well to bring up the standing line.
good guess/got lucky.
i got into the 3:1 on the SAKA quite a bit more and loved it.
i also shortened up the bungee by about an inch and got crisper action (that is to say "crisper action")
my natural redirects are getting faster and less futzy and make me feel like i'm not wasting that much time.
next time i try a basal anchor i'll definitely try the clove. i think that's a bang up idea.
was debating a cow/stillson hitch as well.
both ends on the ground with a AB and pinto rig in the isolated crotch.
i ascended to the TIP and pulled up the standing end so it just touched the ground then re-tied my AB and got some more rope on the working end as i planned on a pretty long excursion threw many redirects and long limbwalks
when all was said and done i had gone threw 3 natural redirects all about the same height.
the second was about 5' higher than the original TIP.
when i got to the ground both ends were just barely touching the ground, so i think i did well to bring up the standing line.
good guess/got lucky.
i got into the 3:1 on the SAKA quite a bit more and loved it.
i also shortened up the bungee by about an inch and got crisper action (that is to say "crisper action")
my natural redirects are getting faster and less futzy and make me feel like i'm not wasting that much time.
next time i try a basal anchor i'll definitely try the clove. i think that's a bang up idea.
was debating a cow/stillson hitch as well.
Grendel
TreeHouser
I've been base tying either off an alpine butterfly with a biner, or with a half-hitch above a choked lower, also with a biner, just like rigging down trunk wood, only in reverse. Also used a big adjustable 16 strand ring-and-ring. There are a million ways to skin that cat, but I've never gotten into the more complex stuff.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #66
yep.
i think the ability to be lowered is interesting and worth looking into but....
well the kit can pile up.
i think the ability to be lowered is interesting and worth looking into but....
well the kit can pile up.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
The kit can pile up quick. I'm not bashing a lower able system at all here, but honestly when do you have the highest chance of an injury while climbing? It's while cutting. By rights you should be lanyarded in as well. The lower able system won't help out. I see where it would help out the rescuer though.
Indeed, I started with all kinds of stuff at the bottom for a lowerable system, then gradually got rid of it.
Down to the alpine butterfly and a biner.
I do have a crate standing by with another line, a sling and a fig 8. If things are very sketchy I hook that up on another alpine b'fly and choke it to an adjacent tree...something for the groundy to use if it went pear shaped.
Never needed it.
Down to the alpine butterfly and a biner.
I do have a crate standing by with another line, a sling and a fig 8. If things are very sketchy I hook that up on another alpine b'fly and choke it to an adjacent tree...something for the groundy to use if it went pear shaped.
Never needed it.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
It's a good idea. Never can be to safe. I know stuff can happen but when I'm climbing I'm the only thing in existence. I don't think of anything else.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #70
just got out of another quick one.
i did a basal with the afore mentioned clove/halfhitches and that was nice.
i didn't really unload the line that much so it probably wasn't a great comparison to the bowline i was using before for a basal anchor.
i really like what you said about the AB Bermy.
no need to mess about with anchor systems and all that but the ability to get a lowering system in place if need be.
treebilly, when cutting i'm tied in twice. that's just the deal.
i've worked with knob-ends who call the lanyard/flipline a scare strap but i use it often, always for cutting.
also my deep love of climbing is almost exactly "when I'm climbing I'm the only thing in existence. I don't think of anything else."
i think of the job and my co-workers but i don't think about outside bullshit.
i did a basal with the afore mentioned clove/halfhitches and that was nice.
i didn't really unload the line that much so it probably wasn't a great comparison to the bowline i was using before for a basal anchor.
i really like what you said about the AB Bermy.
no need to mess about with anchor systems and all that but the ability to get a lowering system in place if need be.
treebilly, when cutting i'm tied in twice. that's just the deal.
i've worked with knob-ends who call the lanyard/flipline a scare strap but i use it often, always for cutting.
also my deep love of climbing is almost exactly "when I'm climbing I'm the only thing in existence. I don't think of anything else."
i think of the job and my co-workers but i don't think about outside bullshit.
My emergency lowering system:
IF needed, once my base tie is set, I tie another alpine B'fly above the biner, tie my rescue line to that...the rescue line leads back to another tree where it is attached to a fig 8 on a sling choked around the tree or a big branch, or could use the truck tow bar if necessary.
If it had to be used, take up the slack, cut my base tie below the alpine b'fly and lower away.
I think I've set it up twice in the last year...just in case.
But on a big job it's on the truck anyway.
IF needed, once my base tie is set, I tie another alpine B'fly above the biner, tie my rescue line to that...the rescue line leads back to another tree where it is attached to a fig 8 on a sling choked around the tree or a big branch, or could use the truck tow bar if necessary.
If it had to be used, take up the slack, cut my base tie below the alpine b'fly and lower away.
I think I've set it up twice in the last year...just in case.
But on a big job it's on the truck anyway.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #72
gotta say. on a big job there's probably a porty on the stem that could be used for lowering.
r0ck1r0ck2
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #74
agreed.
it's been a great weekend of learning and being sick as hell.
can't wait to get paid to climb srt.
have to say tho' 120' of rope was getting short after all the redirects.
might be time for a 150'
it's been a great weekend of learning and being sick as hell.
can't wait to get paid to climb srt.
have to say tho' 120' of rope was getting short after all the redirects.
might be time for a 150'
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