180 Foot Tall by 48" DBH Ponderosa Dismantle

[Marc-Antoine]

Good advice.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I never am insulted by constructive criticism. Complacency can be fatal in what we do. I did not take your post as an insult or as a personal affront in any way

 

[MasterBlaster]

Turn down for what?

 

[flushcut]

so a made a commitment to make every cut as if my life depended on it. Been doing it ever since.

I like that! I tell the guys, every cut is practice so try and make each one perfect.

 

[murphy4trees]

Cool. Those leaners can be a bitch. It was not my intention to insult you. You clearly know what your doing! About 20 years ago I caught myself getting lazy with my cutting, so a made a commitment to make every cut as if my life depended on it. Been doing it ever since.

That's huge.... Like any intense sport, cutting trees has a mental game that almost as important as the physical... I like making every cut intentional, even if it is intentionally lazy
And sometimes it can be intentional to cut through the hinge , it all depends on what is needed... like blocking chunks.. there is no need for the directional control that comes from the hinge... I didn't notice any sloppy cuts in the video, but will take another look..
thanks for your input!

 

[cory]

I like making every cut intentional, even if it is intentionally lazy

I'm actually the same exact way. I used to try to make every cut perfect but after awhile I realized there was no need to bother that much. Every cut is intentional, using enough skill and effort to make it work right. Sometimes that means a perfect Jed hinge, sometimes it is a super ugly, rookie-looking tear cut. Going for minimum input for max results.

"Intentional." Has a yoga/meditation feel to it.

 

[woodworkingboy]

What's wrong with cutting up your hinge close if you've got favorable lean and the top going over the way you want? The reasoning seemed good to me, minimize push back on the spar. I've thought of it as a given for the most part.

 

[rico11764]

Again not attacking CursedVoyce, but look and the cut right after the 3rd chunk. He overshot the angled portion of his face-cut, essentially negating the hinge on that side. The back cut is way to low on the far side and the hinge is completely cut off on the far side. If that looks like a good cut to you, then you either don't know better or don't care. In my world you can't get away with cuts like that. Eventually something bad is going to happen. There is never a goof time for a bad cut.

 

[sotc]

Whole trees are different than long logs which are different than short logs. Fundamentally you still need face cut and back cut and they should be right, subtly, they can and often should change. Ie deeper face, skinnier hinge, sever hinge as it goes over etc. Leverages, forces and momentum changes with size of part. Not going back to watch the video but one size doesn't always fit all. Whizzy, swing Dutchman, snipe etc, different tools for different situations. Yes, good to make intentional cuts every time, especially with logs long enough you can't get control back if things go sideways and cutting only one side off is sketchy but I'd rather cut through the hinge all together on those logs after committed then to have that log stop dead when the face closes. Good discussion here

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Again not attacking CursedVoyce, but look and the cut right after the 3rd chunk. He overshot the angled portion of his face-cut, essentially negating the hinge on that side. The back cut is way to low on the far side and the hinge is completely cut off on the far side. If that looks like a good cut to you, then you either don't know better or don't care. In my world you can't get away with cuts like that. Eventually something bad is going to happen. There is never a goof time for a bad cut.

He's right about the sloppiness of that cut. I did go too deep on the diagonal in the face and the back cut I dropped the tip. The log was only going the one way and the thin hinge on one side did it's job when it commited. That was me being lazy and not double cutting from the other side of the stick.
Mind you I was not threading needles either. Huge lz. But sloppy non the less.
Now, another thing. I cut so much more with precision with my 44 that is requiring a rebuild. Both of them actually. On my 680 echo, it only had a single kind of wimpy dog. Big Dawgs on my stihls. Proper tools aid in your skill. Balance of the saw as well. The 680 would be better balanced with a 24. I think it is Echos version of a 28 that came with it. Proper balance and proper Dawgs aid the cutter on better apex in IMO.
This is what rocks about the tree house! Discussion amongst pros!

 

[rico11764]

sotc & CurSedVoyce (great handle by the way)! Great posts by both of you. Thats why I joined this forum. To share with and learn from real pro's, and have good discussions about things that matter. We can all get better at our craft, and it is something I strive for everytime I spur up.

 

[SkwerI]

Rico, something else rather amazing about CurSedVoyce (Stephen) is that he only started climbing trees about 12-13 years ago. Most climbers quit climbing at a younger age than he started. I pretty much quit climbing by 40 (not by my choice) and climbed my last tree about 45.

 

[rico11764]

Stephen clearly loves what he does, and will hopefully be at it for years to come. One of my mentors was climbing and kicking butt well into his 70's! It's my hope to follow in his footsteps. Time will tell?

 

[sotc]

I want to be able to climb but not have to climb in my 60s and maybe up.
This is family against the boys baseball team. Granny at bat 80 years old, love it! Climb a tree at 80? That'd be cool

 

[stig]

Rico, I just watched the video for the second time, and I'll have to agree.
Some sloppy cuts, but in a place where they( at least in my opinion) don't matter much.
As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even have bothered with hinges in a leaner like that.
Just done the "magic cut" and let them fly.
Only reason I can see for hinges would be to slow the rotation if one was going to land them flat, like Stephen did.

In my world, stuff like that gets chipped for powerplants anyway, so any which way they land is fine.

You've mentioned skills being more important than PPE a couple of times, so let me ask you this:
In one of your first posts you were wedging a biggish Doug fir up, wearing a cloth cap.
What exactly is the skillset required to save oneself in that situation if a dead branch is knocked loose by the occilations of the tree?
Clairvoyance, perhaps?

 

[cory]

One of my mentors was climbing and kicking butt well into his 70's! It's my hope to follow in his footsteps. Time will tell?

That is awesome!

I want to be able to climb but not have to climb in my 60s and maybe up.

Ditto

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I hope I can climb into my 70s
But not have to. Exactly that. Few more till I'm 60. Over sixty like some of our older members, is cool in its self.
80? I can't even imagine....

 

[Mick!]

In this heat even slipping on the harness is horrible, on a crisp, sunny, windless November morning I will feel differently.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Ha.....it was 105 yesterday and 103 when I chunk ed that spar down. The lads were cooked....

 

[Mick!]

Fark that!

Been thinking about this thread.

I think after the relative stress of zipping, lowering and topping, on the descent (not from 180' in my case too often!) whilst chogging down, knees and hips complaining, looking forward to hitting the deck and a nice cup of tea (if you're English)

Most of us are guilty of rushing a bit to slam those lumps on the deck.

It's right to think about getting even those things right, I think it was Reg who said "don't make your last cut, your last cut"

 

[squisher]

A local treeco owner used to always say, "you're only as good as your last cut". It's a good thing to keep in mind.

I've seen that comment piss off more than one treeguy. Lol.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

At least we did not have to move the logs yet, actually will be the equipment op that does. The felling cut, the boys thought I would save for the next day. I was already dangling on the rope for say 80 or 90 feet. I said, let's just do it. Need to make the face cut like this or I'll just have to spur up and do it tomorrow. Get this sucker on the ground. Now that face was perfect. Back cut left a thick little triangle on one side on the double cut. With that hard a lean, it was gonna go when it wanted. Almost got to finish the second cut...

 

[rico11764]

Rico, I just watched the video for the second time, and I'll have to agree.
Some sloppy cuts, but in a place where they( at least in my opinion) don't matter much.
As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even have bothered with hinges in a leaner like that.
Just done the "magic cut" and let them fly.
Only reason I can see for hinges would be to slow the rotation if one was going to land them flat, like Stephen did.

In my world, stuff like that gets chipped for powerplants anyway, so any which way they land is fine.

You've mentioned skills being more important than PPE a couple of times, so let me ask you this:
In one of your first posts you were wedging a biggish Doug fir up, wearing a cloth cap.
What exactly is the skillset required to save oneself in that situation if a dead branch is knocked loose by the occilations of the tree?
Clairvoyance, perhaps?

No clairvoyance brother. Just decades of experience. I was brought up not to wear all that stuff so I can hear, see, and feel what I'm doing, and choose to work that way. I am a better treeman without it, and its been serving me well for a long time. I appreciate that some guys are freaked out about my lack of PPE. I have seen my fair share of guys get messed up wearing plenty of PPE, and know plenty of guys who choose not do wear PPE who are fine. Each to his own.

 

[squisher]

I've worked where there's been fatalities as well. When shit goes south destruction doesn't nescessarily care if you're wearing PPE or not. Conversely I've seen PPE save people from injury first hand. Chaps, hard hats, eye protection.

Just to say you've seen guys messed up wearing ppe and guys without being fine. Have you not also seen the opposite? Or in your experience it's only been guys that wear ppe that get hurt? Just seems an odd statement to me. So genuinely curious if it's been your experience?

Up here it would be rare to non-existent to work without it. To big of risk of fines.

But I'm of the 'live and let live' camp myself. It's your choice, I for one am comfortable with that. It doesn't freak me out at all.

 

[PCTREE]

I think it's great that we get called out here for our faults . One of the first vids I posted I got ripped for no ppe. Never mind I took down a huge decayed poplar using two adjacent trees to rig off and got it done in a safe and timely manner. Ten years later and I'm the crane operator and we all wear ppe, it's no longer my ass in the tree and I want every percentage of risk eliminated that is in my power. I used to feel like I was in a groove and could day in day out push the boundaries. Now from my crane lounger I feel like every day is a roll of the dice. As Rico says being "present" for every aspect of the job is crucial. It's hard sometimes when you are run ragged to keep focused. Been hot here all week and today we had a near Miss with the crane , we all need to assess our level of concentration on a regular business as mistakes can be bad even if you have ppe

Steven, for as hard as you work I feel you should be better compensated, move buddy. I hear ya on the logistics getting too much when you are busy,. It's a killer man