Who Underbid Me? .... and by How Much? .... Do I have the Job?

[CurSedVoyce]

Both

 

[Bermy]

Well I just got an email from the client I just met and did the written estimate for...thanks but they found someone else.
I have to admit its a bummer to get that email...I do wonder who got it and if it is a pro crew or the part timers...and what their bid was. Did they get to know how much I bid and underbid me?
I would really like to know what their quote was, for comparison. but I'm not going to bug her about it. I reckon once you've quoted, and you don't get it, don't offer to lower it to beat them...starts to look like you've been gouging from the start.
Sucks.

 

[Tim_B.]

Sorry to hear that, Bermy. At least she had the decency to get back to you with an answer. That seems like it might be a rare thing, nowadays. Maybe she'll still be a good future prospect.

Tim

 

[bstewert]

I'd be hard pressed to think of an example where I would go back with a lower price, and even harder pressed to think of when I would raise the price after a quote. In writing, or my word, no difference. If the bid was too low, I'd just suck it up, do the same quality job, and write it off to experience. If the bid was too high, I might even turn in a lower bill (depending on how much I valued a future relationship with them).

100% of my jobs are from referrals or repeat customers. I don't ask if they are getting other bids, but if I sense they are, I will often give out 2-3 other companies names and suggest they call to compare. Don't really want a "low-price" customer.

I don't put any correlation to rich-poor and cheap. Some people just can't afford, and others just choose not to. But cheap exists at every level.

 

[Mick!]

"Cheap exists at every level"

Great quote, and very true.

 

[rfwoody]

Well I just got an email from the client I just met and did the written estimate for...thanks but they found someone else.
I have to admit its a bummer to get that email...I do wonder who got it and if it is a pro crew or the part timers...and what their bid was. Did they get to know how much I bid and underbid me?
I would really like to know what their quote was, for comparison. but I'm not going to bug her about it. I reckon once you've quoted, and you don't get it, don't offer to lower it to beat them...starts to look like you've been gouging from the start.
Sucks.

Sorry to hear that, Bermy. At least she had the decency to get back to you with an answer. That seems like it might be a rare thing, nowadays. Maybe she'll still be a good future prospect.

Tim

That does seem like a good/rare thing for a customer to get back to you like that, Bermy.
You must have made a good impression on her.

Yeah, I myself wouldn't want to bug them about follow up and be a pest or (in my case) creepy or whatnot

Yes, "starts to look like you've been gouging from the start" -- That does seem a possibility for someone to think if you came back with a lower price... but maybe if they compared (e.g. my) prices with others they would see the true picture.

 

[rfwoody]

I'd be hard pressed to think of an example where I would go back with a lower price, and even harder pressed to think of when I would raise the price after a quote. In writing, or my word, no difference. If the bid was too low, I'd just suck it up, do the same quality job, and write it off to experience. If the bid was too high, I might even turn in a lower bill (depending on how much I valued a future relationship with them).

100% of my jobs are from referrals or repeat customers. I don't ask if they are getting other bids, but if I sense they are, I will often give out 2-3 other companies names and suggest they call to compare. Don't really want a "low-price" customer.

I don't put any correlation to rich-poor and cheap. Some people just can't afford, and others just choose not to. But cheap exists at every level.

"Cheap exists at every level"

Great quote, and very true.

bstewert -- Sounds like a good way of doing business. Thanks. (even if I might consider lowering the price to get a job).

I'm still trying to zero in on a price for firewood delivered and stacked.
I started off with $150 -- but my sales pitch was too scattered and wordy. (i.e. answering phone call from ad in paper).
Then I changed to $125 with a more condensed sales pitch and description... and I got a sale.
Now after consideration, I think I will go with $145 a load and see how that goes.... something I can be happy with if people are willing to pay. (but if my $125 customer wants more wood, I will still charge him the same $125, at least this season).

 

[SeanKroll]

"Do you know the timeframe on making your decision? "

Easy question.

"I'll be contacting the winning contractor by next Friday, most likely"

Easy answer.

"Sounds good. Right now, we have an appointment available, in a week and a half/ scheduling out about two weeks/ etc"

Easy way to bring up scheduling.

 

[rfwoody]

..... "Sounds good. Right now, we have an appointment available, in a week and a half/ scheduling out about two weeks/ etc"

Easy way to bring up scheduling.

Sean, I guess I'm kind of dense... what is the goal of bringing up scheduling? .... to nudge/help the customer in your direction ? Thanks.

 

[SeanKroll]

You are there to close the job, not make a social call (I've heard it put, maybe by Mick). You don't have to try to Close the job, but nudging is good. Sometimes someone who isn't nudged lets the whole project go by the wayside, but if they decide to say yes, and schedule, you're more "in".

I'm a soft-seller, but should put up a little more directness, perhaps.


Nothing wrong with selling yourself, then asking to close the deal, subtly.

Sometimes (per Stephen, CursedVoyce), showing that you're busy, and that they better book now if they're considering you and want it done soon, helps. Being a desired and booked service, not the ready-to-start-immediately service, is going to get better customers wanting you.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Exactly...
Also, it is part of closing the deal. Pull out the book, show them all the names in front of them... Then book em danno.

 

[Tree09]

Sometimes (per Stephen, CursedVoyce), showing that you're busy, and that they better book now if they're considering you and want it done soon, helps. Being a desired and booked service, not the ready-to-start-immediately service, is going to get better customers wanting you.

So true. I have a buddy who does a mowing business and takes it so far as to never call someone (say I give him a number of someone looking for a lawn service). He will only talk to people that get ahold of him, otherwise he says it sets the tone all wrong for the whole thing. Imo that's extreme, but he has a very valid point.

You mentioned that the guy is looking for rock bottom prices probably, so when you hand him a legitimate price he realized that you aren't gonna be the dupe to do them for almost nothing, he probably thought to just leave them, as he has obviously done for years at this point. It's funny if you give a bid to someone and then they never get back to you, you can drive by even years later and nothing has happened to the tree. Some people see trees as a problem that needs work, and if they can just leave it, they will. Very common in the rental game. In fact, you need to stay away from rental houses and relators for a few years. They are always looking for the cheapest work, and will attempt to pull one over on you.

You want normal working class people. You aren't ready for the super upscale people yet, they will expect complete perfection without the yard even looking like it was walked in. Normal working people understand that this work is dangerous and hard, and will often work with you to come to an agreement over price and work done. They are also very good references, because they know people who need work done too and if you are good they will refer them to you. All you need is the first few jobs, and they will snowball into a full time job if you let it.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

You don't want to be the cheap solution. You want to provide a good service that is considered a good value. This goes a long way with the working class and fixed income folks.

 

[Mick!]

Funny you should mention about not being immediately available.

I was out pricing Saturday and halfway through the day realised I had nothing booked for yesterday (Monday)

I had to pull the old "I've just had a cancellation" line.

 

[treetx]

Being scarce is always good.

One of the big barrier to value add is the whole argument of trees are an asset and investment in the future goes out the window fast in the USA at times. A big challenge is the cold hard fact that most customers don't differentiate between a cottonwood and an oak. That combined with the fact that the average time a house is owned in the USA is 6 yrs. It makes it really hard to sell value of continuum of care.

I likely need another cup of coffee to wash away some of the cynicism, but most buyers are liars and most customers are just looking for some way to take a shower without getting wet.

 

[rfwoody]

You are there to close the job, not make a social call (I've heard it put, maybe by Mick). You don't have to try to Close the job, but nudging is good. Sometimes someone who isn't nudged lets the whole project go by the wayside, but if they decide to say yes, and schedule, you're more "in".

I'm a soft-seller, but should put up a little more directness, perhaps.


Nothing wrong with selling yourself, then asking to close the deal, subtly.

Sometimes (per Stephen, CursedVoyce), showing that you're busy, and that they better book now if they're considering you and want it done soon, helps. Being a desired and booked service, not the ready-to-start-immediately service, is going to get better customers wanting you.

Exactly...
Also, it is part of closing the deal. Pull out the book, show them all the names in front of them... Then book em danno.

Sounds like really good stuff here.
This is the kind of approach I am comfortable with.

You are offering the potential customer a worthwhile service that they need, for a fair/good/even/equitable price.
Ideally an even exchange: "their work" == "your price"
You both benefit... they get what they want (the work done) == you get what you want (the money, a customer, a referral?)

So by nudging them in your direction you are helping them do the right thing.

Your time (and their time) is finite... if they wait, they may miss out.

 

[rfwoody]

So true. I have a buddy who does a mowing business and takes it so far as to never call someone (say I give him a number of someone looking for a lawn service). He will only talk to people that get ahold of him, otherwise he says it sets the tone all wrong for the whole thing. Imo that's extreme, but he has a very valid point.

You mentioned that the guy is looking for rock bottom prices probably, so when you hand him a legitimate price he realized that you aren't gonna be the dupe to do them for almost nothing, he probably thought to just leave them, as he has obviously done for years at this point. It's funny if you give a bid to someone and then they never get back to you, you can drive by even years later and nothing has happened to the tree. Some people see trees as a problem that needs work, and if they can just leave it, they will. Very common in the rental game. In fact, you need to stay away from rental houses and relators for a few years. They are always looking for the cheapest work, and will attempt to pull one over on you.

You want normal working class people. You aren't ready for the super upscale people yet, they will expect complete perfection without the yard even looking like it was walked in. Normal working people understand that this work is dangerous and hard, and will often work with you to come to an agreement over price and work done. They are also very good references, because they know people who need work done too and if you are good they will refer them to you. All you need is the first few jobs, and they will snowball into a full time job if you let it.

You don't want to be the cheap solution. You want to provide a good service that is considered a good value. This goes a long way with the working class and fixed income folks.

Thanks a lot Tree09 and CurSedVoyce for the insight and advice! Helpful!

Funny Tree09 about the upscale folks ---- funny though in some of my experiences a long time ago as a storm window, replacement window, etc. installer, sometimes the people in the really nice houses were the easiest to work with and some of the more "regular" houses/people were the most picky ...... but this could partly have been a reflection on my because looking back maybe I wasn't as good as I thought I was -- haha, hopefully I can learn from y'all and my own past and in this endeavor to have a more sober opinion of myself --- which I see is necessary in this sort of dangerous work. --- but I have heard that *cleanup* (if part of the job) is one of the most important aspects because that is the main thing they will remember you by.

"You want to provide a good service that is considered a good value." sounds good

 

[rfwoody]

Funny you should mention about not being immediately available.

I was out pricing Saturday and halfway through the day realised I had nothing booked for yesterday (Monday)

I had to pull the old "I've just had a cancellation" line.

Being scarce is always good.

One of the big barrier to value add is the whole argument of trees are an asset and investment in the future goes out the window fast in the USA at times. A big challenge is the cold hard fact that most customers don't differentiate between a cottonwood and an oak. That combined with the fact that the average time a house is owned in the USA is 6 yrs. It makes it really hard to sell value of continuum of care.

I likely need another cup of coffee to wash away some of the cynicism, but most buyers are liars and most customers are just looking for some way to take a shower without getting wet.

Thanks for the more variety of opinion and sageness, Mick, and treetx!

More reasons to keep studying the science of arboriculture and have more to offer the customer in real value.

 

[treetx]

Coffee didn't help with my cynicism. I'll give it a few hours and see if beer does the trick!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Beer always helps!

 

[squisher]

Bid em and forget em. Was how my market worked.

 

[Mick!]

Let's be honest Woody, you are going to be the cheapest, because you will have to be to get the job.

You're not going to blow them away with your equipment/knowledge/expertise.

Don't worry about it there's room for everyone.

 

[dstimber]

Working up a quote for these guys 15-18 marked to remove total. Haven't met the guy in person yet. It's a friend from high school father .I just spoke with him over the phone. Believe he has a new grand baby arriving so it was short.
After going to look at them. I know I can't get rid of the stumps. That'll be someone else's baby. And it's possibly going to be more than a weekend worth of work so he probably won't want to drag it out over a few weeks.( I need to retire from sawmilling).
Still gonna make up a quote for him. So we will see what comes of it.

 

[Burnham]

Getting them down ought to extremely easy. Picking up the resulting mess...not so much .

 

[SeanKroll]

What's your approach going to be, Denver?

A 60' self-propelled lift and a heavy mini-excavator would put a hurt on those trees quickly, if not fell-able.