Where's the SAKA knee ascender?

[kevin bingham]

I wonder if a paper towel roll would work

 

[Tim_B.]

Tim, that is true with all patents. Anyone can take a patented idea and use or build it for their own use, it is in the selling and making money that patents protect.

Thanks a lot for this, Dave. I was not aware that that was the case. I wonder if this means that Mr. Mumford could legally re-post his original video of how to make a SAKA as long as he specified that anyone who makes one do it for their own use only. It would be nice if everyone bought the HAAS first, just to encourage and reward that innovation, but after that people could in good conscience make an alternative for themselves, and see how they like it.

Tim

 

[cory]

I wonder if a paper towel roll would work

I tried that but it doesn't bend well around the bole.

 

[DMc]

I wonder if this means that Mr. Mumford could legally re-post his original video of how to make a SAKA as long as he specified that anyone who makes one do it for their own use only. It would be nice if everyone bought the HAAS first, just to encourage and reward that innovation, but after that people could in good conscience make an alternative for themselves, and see how they like it.Tim

Knowing that there was no legal infraction, is there any doubt as to why he pulled that video?

 

[DMc]

Have we totally forgotten that advancement of a product, even a patented one, happens all the time through user feedback?

 

[Tim_B.]

Knowing that there was no legal infraction, is there any doubt as to why he pulled that video?

No, not too much. I guess I was just thinking that if Mr. Mumford said that he is completely out of the game of making and selling the SAKA to others, that he might wish to do what he said he was going to do in the first place, which was to freely share his modifications with the community by way of saying thanks.

Have we totally forgotten that advancement of a product, even a patented one, happens all the time through user feedback?

So, please tell me what it is you are saying here, just for the sake of being abundantly clear. I am not trying to be argumentative here, just for the record. Just trying to understand.

If I had to take my best guess, I would think that you are saying that anyone that wants a prefabricated knee ascender that incorporates any kind of bungee that runs down past the ascender all the way to the foot should be purchased as some form of a HAAS. Plus, if you have any ideas for a tweak of the design to make it better, it should be offered up to the original inventor free of charge, as product feedback. Then allow the original inventor to make additional models of his original device to see which ones work best and sell best, while all the while profiting the original inventor for his first brilliant breakthrough in the technology. Did all of that seem like a fair summary of what you are trying to say?

I guess my next question is whether or not you think it is wrong or immoral for people to use the idea to make their own piece of equipment with their own materials without compensating the original inventor, even if it would be legal to do so, strictly speaking?

Thanks for your patience with me Dave. I'm still trying to grow as a human being, and I respect your opinions, so these are serious questions.

Tim

 

[DMc]

... I guess my next question is whether or not you think it is wrong or immoral for people to use the idea to make their own piece of equipment with their own materials without compensating the original inventor, even if it would be legal to do so, strictly speaking?... Tim

LOL! Not at all, always do for yourself what you can. The rest of your post was close enough but what I meant is that patents do not stifle advancement as has been proposed. So the need to go through another manufacturer for a design change is not the only way to get those changes. In the end that may be what it takes but customer feedback has always been a powerful tool for change.

 

[Tim_B.]

Thanks, Dave. Also, I recently read a post in another forum in which a guy stated that it is only legal to make your own copy of a patented device if it never gets used for commercial purposes. If he's correct, only a recreational climber could legally make his own HAAS. An arborist charging customers for his services would still be infringing on the patent, according to the post. Seems likely to be true, to me.

 

[Altissimus]

Hah !

 

[DMc]

I am not a patent attorney, Tim, but as far as I know, a patent's purpose is exclusive to who makes money from the sale of the patented item, not money made from the use of it. Seems a bit of a stretch to me.

 

[Bermy]

Well, I make money from using patented items...when I bought it, that's when the money changes hands, not when I use it. If it were so, I'd have to pay a royalty or fee every time I used it on a paying job.

 

[Tree09]

The cotton gin was copied many times by people who used it for selling cotton, not cotton gins...

 

[Tim_B.]

The closest thing I can think of that relates to this idea of a limitation on commercial use, is with some software, where it is free if used for personal uses, but they want money if you intend to use the software for business purposes. That could be an entirely different deal though, as to use the software in any manner, even free, means accepting the terms of an "End User License Agreement" or EULA, which is essentially a legal contract that a user is freely agreeing with and entering into.

 

[Altissimus]

Prusik died a wealthy man I'm sure

 

[MasterBlaster]

That sucks, but I guess it's better than dying poor.