What Non Essential Gear Do You Think Is Worth Owning?
- Thread starter lxskllr
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SeanKroll
Treehouser
You've got sense.
If there were no seat belts, ABS, airbags, etc, people would drive less in the snow, waiting out storms, etc.
If there were no seat belts, ABS, airbags, etc, people would drive less in the snow, waiting out storms, etc.
Burnham
Woods walker
I doubt that, Sean. Seriously, you're not making sense.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Guessing sarcasm
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #55
I get what Sean's going for, but I don't know that it applies to treeworkers with a gram of sense. Sometimes safety features can cause people to take more risks under the assumption the engineered safety will protect them. A spinning saw chain is intimidating no matter what safety you're using imo. I like my saw protection untested by me.
in certain circumstances PPE can be helpful, however its not to be used, it should sit there and look pretty its whole life, stay clean, never get cut, etc
I have had one instance where I forgot to buckle the chinstrap on my helmet, which saved me from a broken neck not 30 minutes later when a top I sent snagged it, pulling it off my head, tearing the screen, sena and suspension clean off the helmet helmet, helmet pieces landed all over the lawn like confetti
the sleeves will do a mental thing where people think they can cut right by their arm/one hand a saw "safely", just how the human brain is wired, yes they MAY save you if you cut yourself, but the odds of cutting yourself go up exponentially, just like how a welder wearing heavy welding gloves goes "oh I can pick this hot part up, oh shit I just burned my hand"
a few weeks ago I had an equipment failure, my nearly new zigzag+ failed to grab the rope and stop me, causing me to fall 40 feet and land right ontop of my saw that was stowed on my hip, the device passed a visual inspection and a function test before going up the tree and has never had such an issue in the past, would it have happened if I was free climbing? not that way but theres also a chance I could lose my grip and do the exact same fall
PPE is all in hopes that we never need it and hopes it works perfectly when we do need it, but I personally do NOT trust any PPE to save me, as my dad always says "its not a safety railing if you are sitting on it"
I have had one instance where I forgot to buckle the chinstrap on my helmet, which saved me from a broken neck not 30 minutes later when a top I sent snagged it, pulling it off my head, tearing the screen, sena and suspension clean off the helmet helmet, helmet pieces landed all over the lawn like confetti
the sleeves will do a mental thing where people think they can cut right by their arm/one hand a saw "safely", just how the human brain is wired, yes they MAY save you if you cut yourself, but the odds of cutting yourself go up exponentially, just like how a welder wearing heavy welding gloves goes "oh I can pick this hot part up, oh shit I just burned my hand"
a few weeks ago I had an equipment failure, my nearly new zigzag+ failed to grab the rope and stop me, causing me to fall 40 feet and land right ontop of my saw that was stowed on my hip, the device passed a visual inspection and a function test before going up the tree and has never had such an issue in the past, would it have happened if I was free climbing? not that way but theres also a chance I could lose my grip and do the exact same fall
PPE is all in hopes that we never need it and hopes it works perfectly when we do need it, but I personally do NOT trust any PPE to save me, as my dad always says "its not a safety railing if you are sitting on it"
Mick!
TreeHouser
You fell 40 feet and landed on the saw on your hip?
flushcut
TreeHouser
He bounced twice and lived to tell the tale.
Eric H-L
Treehouser
Glad you are ok! So the nearly new zigzag was not in that batch referenced in the 2021 safety bulletin? What rope were you on?
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With friction hitches not being as finicky or susceptible to recalls, could it be said that mechanical ascending/descending devices are " non-essential gear" worth/not worth owning? I've never seen one in person and know FA about them but wondered why they aren't sold as a package, dialed in, with a compatible rope, as a plug and play, open the box and you're ready to go. I repeat, I know FA about them...
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #61
Where I was going with the thread was 'almost frivolous gear that I really like using, but my life wouldn't drastically change if I didn't have it'. Mechanicals aren't essential in the absolute sense, but it's how things are done now for a lot of people. It's a mainstream approach that I'd consider essential if you go that route.
As far as a prepackaged system goes, people are so individual, a standard gear loadout won't work. People have their preferences for rope, and even how much slip and grab they get from the systems. Then there's the physical differences. I'm approaching 250# kitted out. Bermy probably doesn't hit 150#. A single system wouldn't work for both of us. The companies give guidelines on what gear to use, but it isn't etched in stone. You can use something they specifically don't recommend if it ends up working for you.
As far as a prepackaged system goes, people are so individual, a standard gear loadout won't work. People have their preferences for rope, and even how much slip and grab they get from the systems. Then there's the physical differences. I'm approaching 250# kitted out. Bermy probably doesn't hit 150#. A single system wouldn't work for both of us. The companies give guidelines on what gear to use, but it isn't etched in stone. You can use something they specifically don't recommend if it ends up working for you.
Kaveman
Treehouser
Do you cut without eyepro? PPE isn't just for the just in case. Stay in school kid, because if you keep that attitude, you'll die. Most of the people who will read that crap you wrote, have been doing this job since you were a gleam in daddy's eye. Listen to what they have to say, I'm sure you won't find many that'll preach against PPE like you just did, and if you do, count their fingers.
Kaveman
Treehouser
I love my unicender! But again, not essential for someone who learned with a Blake's hitch.
Also not essential, but I love rope bags. My quality of life has improved significantly since I started bagging all my ropes.
Also not essential, but I love rope bags. My quality of life has improved significantly since I started bagging all my ropes.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
PPE should be the last line of defense.
It is designed to reduce how badly you are hurt.
Observing people's habits is different than endorsing people's habits.
I know employees can get tired of me telling them to wear their gear or working safer, such as avoiding simple safety oversights like standing with a more open exit while bucking logs or having 2 well-cleared escape routes in a forest felling scenario.
Last week I warned a guy that there are "perk pits" in the woods. A mini excavator is used to dig a hole or 2 that is about 5-6' deep. A septic designer looks at the soil profile and theorizes about the percolation of effluent. The forest grows back over them. He could have fallen into one, but was being watchful in thick undergrowth, including lots of ferns.
It is designed to reduce how badly you are hurt.
Observing people's habits is different than endorsing people's habits.
I know employees can get tired of me telling them to wear their gear or working safer, such as avoiding simple safety oversights like standing with a more open exit while bucking logs or having 2 well-cleared escape routes in a forest felling scenario.
Last week I warned a guy that there are "perk pits" in the woods. A mini excavator is used to dig a hole or 2 that is about 5-6' deep. A septic designer looks at the soil profile and theorizes about the percolation of effluent. The forest grows back over them. He could have fallen into one, but was being watchful in thick undergrowth, including lots of ferns.
I dont wear eye pro, I wear reading glasses so its impossible for me to wear safety glasses/goggles
PPE is just for incase, its never to actually do anything, if it does something then you seriously frigged up, I will keep my attitude about it
im not preaching against it, I am explaining how humans work and treat PPE, everyone I know that doesnt use PPE on every single occasion has had less injuries than people I know who wrap up in bubble wrap to use a drivethrough
yes, I had the rope weight as some drag on the way down but thats it, the fall was about ~40ft, the actual landing impact was probably that of a 20-25ft fall, my feet hit first and slowed me down a little and I fell to my right side, landing on my 200t and my arm
my zigzag wasnt one of the recalled ones, running on 11.5 sterling scion, same stuff August ran on his zigzag for years
never had an issue till that day, and never had one since, it is totally possible that a stick slid down my rope while I was looking down at the ground crew, but I doubt it as I was mid rappel when the thing just let go on me
I did an inspection on mine following the diagram in the petzl article you linked that morning (as I always do) and it passed with flying colors
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
You take your prescription down to Walmart and get a set of safeties made.
About 300 - 400 clams for 2 pair as I recall.
Impossible should be a challenge word to prove it's not.
About 300 - 400 clams for 2 pair as I recall.
Impossible should be a challenge word to prove it's not.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Reason for 2 pair, one sun glass type, other clear for cloudy days.
Buddy of mine does this for shooting and saw work.
Buddy of mine does this for shooting and saw work.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #70
The flipdown visor on my vertex vent just squeaks past my glasses, but I have to raise and lower it, cause it really traps heat. I tried a mesh face shield, but it gets hung up too bad in branches.
Pfanner has a prescription insert for the sunglasses, I may get one made. currently I use the sunglass/safety glass insert slid over my glasses but it only blocks light, stuff still gets in my eyes pretty easily
ive thought about contacts but ive also heard horror stories about contacts and dusty work environments
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #72
Contacts aren't terrific if you're working outside. Something will happen to a lens, and your hands are filthy. God help you if you're a smoker too. The nicotine on your fingers is like jalapeño eye drops.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I can't tolerate the face shield either. Our oaks just fug with them bad. Better luck with Bug Eyes for the fog. But fine dust still seems to get in. So I prefer safeties. Clean them with spit seems to help like in diving.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I have had stuff get under contacts and you just don't in a dusty environment. Or chemical....
one thing I would actually like to add to the non essential list would be the protos sunglasses"
they do fit over a pair of glasses but no longer function as safety glasses IMO, great for crane work where im constantly looking up and the sun is never in a good spot
sorry for the extreme closeup of my nose, just trying to show the clearance over my glasses, I actually bought smaller frames so they would fit
they do fit over a pair of glasses but no longer function as safety glasses IMO, great for crane work where im constantly looking up and the sun is never in a good spot
sorry for the extreme closeup of my nose, just trying to show the clearance over my glasses, I actually bought smaller frames so they would fit
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