Welders? Any welders on this site?

You would have to look far and wide to get the same horse power for your buck comparing electric to gasoline or diesel .It might sound odd but it's true it takes nearly double the HP for gas or diesel to replace an electric motor .Google it .Take say a 5 HP motor at 746 wattts per HP and for the sake of debate round that off to 1 kilowatt hour per at 9 cents per unit .You can't run a 10 HP gas motor for 45 cents an hour .
Now then a transformer rectifier can be smooth depending on the rectification .A three phase unit using a bridge rectifier can be .Often a less expensive single phase unit is not so much because of the ripple .
I rewired a three phase unit for single phase 400 amp that started out an open delta two transformer .By going to single it probably has about 225 amps more or less .After the rectifiers I went one more step with a double Pi filter using an inductor and two capacitors making it damn near ripple free and it's smooth a silk . You can Google that too but it's going to take a while to figure it .< that's a little trick they don't teach in apprenticeship school .;)
 
That is so many levels beyond my understanding of things electrical. I think it's awesome that people understand that kind of voodoo and can tame it and use it. I have a good friend that would totally understand what you just wrote and be able to comment own it coherently. He's the same one that helped me rig an inverter in my truck to power the air compressor in my trailer... A pretty straightforward process in retrospect but daunting at the time we did it.
 
My main concern with a portable engine drive unit is ease of use in my setup, as well as cost. Most of my welding will be in my shop and espescially in the winter it seems it would be a pain to run the leads in and out. Also need long leads to run it where I'd want it or might need it in my shop(30x40'). Then having a whole other motor to maintain too. Depending on the year and my inclination I might have little to no use for it. So it could sit for a long while. I still think a cheap ac/dc unit is going to be my best bet.

I do hear what's being said about the superior arc quality though.
 
Are you meaning the electric powered generator that Kyle was talking about?

The problem for me is availability. The used market is small. Locally there are two welders available to me under $1000+. The one I posted about and a 225amp a/c buzz box brand one for $250. If I search out to up to 2hrs one way away I've got about 8 available from a Hobart stick mate ac/doc for $620 which needs a new torch(not a frigging chance buddy) to the thunderbolt ac/dc that the guy never even got back to me about for $400, a couple of Lincoln ac tombstones for 200-300.

So the odds of me being able to pick and choose exactly what I want are slim. I'm not really looking to soak up $100 in fuel and 1/2 a day to travel for a machine.

Can't help but read some of the hype on the new igbt inverter stick machines for right around the same price, tig included and delivered to my door. Like the everlast brand model 210stl . Mostly all seem to lack the known reliability, a/c, and the overall punch of a older transformer machine. But are light, cheap, include tig and claim to have a much easier to use arc as well as reduced power use (not that I'm going to be welding a crap ton anyways). My weld king mig 145 has done the trick for me so far but we have already established I'm pretty clueless about welding. Lol. If I hadn't been warned on here, I'd be seriously looking at pulling the pin on something like this. But while I might be a little dumb I'm not deaf so am still thinking to hold out for a ac/dc transformer used.

Still no mad rush for me.
 
As far as running leads, sitting outside doesn't ruin them, especially if you can shield them from sunlight a bit.. You can even run them next to the air conditioner or another hole and even foam them. You can also leave them coiled up inside, and have enough length to simply plug them and then close the door on them. You are going to want tweco or dinse style quick connects (kioke quick connects on a cutting torch are the way to go too), that way if you get more lead in the future you can simply add it like another extension cord. You can swap stingers, grounds etc, and it makes your life way easier. A shop machine will be just fine as well, but if you do get a generator style welder at a good price it will have a much better arc. By generator style i am not referring to an engine drive, I'm referring to a dc generator welder. They have large brushes which transfer the power, and because of their construction offer a true drooping arc curve. The other kinds are inverters and transformers, and all three could be used for an engine drive machine. A lincwelder 225, Lincoln sa whatever, sae whatever, or an torpedo type machine are all dc generators. They will have a dramatically better arc, and excel in out of position work. If that particular Miller is in fact a dc generator, it might be worth closer examination (the point I'm trying to make). But if you really would prefer a shop machine, that will be ok too.

Edit: yes the mg is the electric driven generator style, aka torpedo. Please please please ignore the marketing and other bullshit involving welding and welding machines, facts are facts and you will not find any in their ads or affiliated sponsors (YouTube etc). The people who actually know and understand the difference are usually highly trained tradesmen, and they don't care what sells, only what they have to use. This is why you seldom hear what I'm saying, and that is that the machine manufactures are trying to sell technology rather then quality.
 
Air conditioner. lol. No a/c in my shop, just heat. In summertime if needed I just pop open the doors. I do have a lean to on one side that I could store it in but that's the wrong side of my shop for metal/mechanical work. That's the bike side so I'd have to run the leads across one bay. Still something to consider for me. As always I appreciate all the input, helps me scratch the surface and gives me things to research. I finally started to wrap my head around inverter vs transformer and now I have to figure out dc generator? Where does it end!?!

Been working daily, and my old pickup is giving me some grief again, and it just snowed last night again, so getting sidetracked from 'setting up' anyways and spending up some of my budget on truck repairs again. :whine:
 
I hear you, most of my projects and plans take years to come to fruition. The difference between the machines is how the welding current is generated. A transformer machine will use a... transformer to reduce the voltage and increase the amperage, and then on a dc machine will use diodes to rectify the ac to a dc only output. Since it is directly using line power, it operates at 60 Hz, and if we look at the arc on a scope, it will have little humps in it. An inverter will act similarly, but will bump the hertz up to 30000, then convert it to dc, so it has much smaller humps. Because of the switching that occurs with an inverter, the voltage is usually even lower when actually welding (and usually has less slope on the volt amp curve), and arc quality on cellulose rods suffers (6010,11). However, since most welding machines are bought for construction, and most construction codes use 7018 and tig for root passes in pipe, inverters are very popular because they do both of these just fine. A generator makes a ripple free dc current, and has the ability to adjust both the voltage and slope of the arc curve, so will actually weld the best by a long shot. Current very high end inverters are approaching the arc characteristics of a generator, but the machines are very expensive and at the end of the day rely on circuit boards to do what the other machines do naturally (with robust parts vs delicate computer parts). There are also differences in the generator welders, but you are getting to splitting hairs to most people. Welding downhill pipe is about the only industry that really cares at that point, because they are owned by the actual welders themselves and arc characteristics can make or break you when doing xray work downhill. Everyone has their preferences and economic realities, so like everything else in life there are trade-offs.
 
Thanks again. Good explanation. I think I'll be just fine with a ac/dc transformer for what I will be doing. I really am kind of stuck on getting a thunderbolt. When I have some days off I may bug that guy about the one listed. Depending where in the area he's listed in he is. He could be as close as a HR or HR and a half away. And maybe willing to transport it to meet me but I'm thinking I should try it out or have him demonstrate it so I know it works right. Something will fall into place, I've been spreading the word at work, but also stressing I'm looking for a deal.

I'm meeting up with a guy today to pick up another 4.5" grinder so I'll have two. Grinder, five new grinding wheels, a couple cutting wheels, couple flap wheels, and a wire wheel and twisted wire wheel both new for $20 buck. Hard to go wrong.

I'm a classified junky. Lol.
 
A thunderbolt will do you fine and will last forever. Please just ignore inverters, unless you want to spend some money to get a decent one and aren't against spending more down the road when it breaks. They look good on paper and are fairly reliable (depending on the brand), but not to the level that the simpler machines are. If you are getting an inverter, make sure to get a Lincoln or Miller, because their reputation is everything to them and they are more inclined to make a quality product and be around long enough to service it. You will hear about everlast and other off brands, but for my money i want a machine from a welding manufacturer that has been around forever, can supply parts, and can do the work if need be.
 
Yah. I'll stick with a older transformer I think. The price will be right and still cheaper than even a cheap inverter machine of the same capacity. And as I've learned a much much much greater chance of never having any real issues. It's tempting to just buy a old ac machine on the cheap but I think I'll hold out for a ac/dc one. It's also killing me that there is a ac/dc buzz box for sale for $100! But it's like a five HR drive one way. I've been watching it for a week and a half now and I wish someone would just buy it already so it'd stop eating at me. Lol.

Picked up the grinder and the seller was a proper gent. Threw in about six more random wheels he found he had. Just a cheapy American tool exchange grinder but for $20? The wire wheels cost more than that alone up here.
 
Lol i think everyone who has to work for a living is like that. Hell anymore i feel like just working is hard enough. As my friend says tho, it's just like eating an elephant, just one bite at a time. I'm in it for the long grind, that's how i get stuff done now.
 
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  • #265
True! I am buying parts to build a snow pusher now so I can maybe build it in September.
 
The disaster zone. Where dirty deeds are done dirt cheap.

Seems it's a constant struggle to keep it halfways organized. But I still can get sh-t done in it!

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  • #269
At least you have floor space to work on something. I see you needing a shelving unit or two to use up some of the wall space and take it vertical.
 
Mostly I feel like I just need to get rid of some shit. I had a big racking system in the shop for awhile but didn't like it. That's 12' ceiling so I'll never be using to much of the wall space unless I want to use a ladder a bunch I guess. Some smaller shelving would be alright. Just gotta tidy up mostly. I get scared to get it to neat and tidy though. Seems like every time I do something decides to break down and move in. Lol.
 
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  • #271
There is the flip side to that coin, if you clean it nothing will break because you have the room to work on it. In my experience a clean shop never stays that way very long.
 
It's a magnet. For holding metal together for welding. There's some little blue ones on the other side too.
 
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