Wayne's Ramblingz

[Mesquite]

I figure i might as well make my own place. So i stop making tons of new threads and have this one for all my gear related shenanigans.

First order of business is i just made a batch of ethanol free gas to mix with two stroke mix. My question is with removing the ethanol and having one gallon of the ethanol free gas and mixing it the same as I have before what will that do to the mixture. Meaning when I run it in my chainsaw will it run richer? Now That I took all the crap out of the gas. Like backwards of making a 50 to 1 a 40 to 1?
Thank yaz

 

[vharrison]

It is a trick question 😂

 

[Tree09]

Are you being serious man? A gallon of gas is a gallon of gas, it won't change your mix. And i would love to see how you removed ethanol from the gas.

 

[Jonny]

You’re removing the ethanol yourself?

I get ethanol free from the pump. Little bottle of Stihl synthetic is supposed to be added to a gallon of gas for 50:1. I use around .8 gallons for a 40:1.

 

[Altissimus]

Next Question

 

[Burnham]

I've heard claims of using additives to remove ethanol from gas. The cost of the additives seemed to make the resulting fuel more costly than buying non-ethanol, to me. I have no idea if it works, either.

 

[SeanKroll]

I've seen ethanol removal on video, probably here.

 

[lxskllr]

I looked into it before. It's conceptually easy, but a hassle, and kind of expensive. When you remove the ethanol, you have to boost the octane cause it went with the alcohol.

 

[BIGTWIG]

@huskihl

 

[Marc-Antoine]

What should change a little is the carb tuning.
Ethanol has oxygen already in it, so it needs less air to burn, while it delivers less energy because the molecule is in fact partialy oxidised.
For the same work at the output, you end to burn more gas with the ethanol.
For the etnanol free gas, give it more air to burn.
The oil in the mix works before entering in the combustion chamber as a part of the machine. When you need a 50:1mix, that means a certain amount of oil provided at each turn of the engine. That's THE point of the oil, it doesn't matter what you put with it to run the engine. They could make an engine with a separate lubricating system like many bykes. Straight gas in the tank and a tiny blip of oil at each turn. But it's more complicated and heavy. The mix does that the simpliest way possible. As long as you put the right amount of oil for a smooth run, you can try to burn what ever you want. You will struggle with the carb, but the machine would be happy with its oil..

 

[Jonny]

My dad’s old Bridgestone bike was like that I think. 2 stroke but took the oil in a separate reservoir and metered it in with the raw gas.

 

[huskihl]

Ethanol contains oxygen. If your saw was tuned to run on ethanol, and you remove the ethanol, the leftover product won’t contain that little bit of oxygen and the saw will run richer and the screws may need adjustment. Hypothetically.

It’s bad news if you go the other way. I’ve seen saws burn up when tuned for ethanol free mix and the owner accidentally made a batch of mix with E85

 

[Mesquite]

there is 128 ounces in 1 gallon of gas 10% is 12.8 ounces. people say that going from 50to1 to 40to1 you have to be careful and retune because the 40to1 is a leaner mix. a 50to1 mix you ad 2.6 ounces and a 40 to 1 mix you add 3.2 ounces. so if you take out 12.8 ounces out of your mix things are defiantly changing. is a gallon of ethanol free and a gallon of e10 gas the same? unfortunately the only place that sells ethanol free is at least 1 hour through traffic away so that isnt going to happen any time soon.


this is the expensive way to remove ethanol so dont watch it if its to rich for your blood.



i found a smokin deal on a case of half gallon glass mason jars that work perfect for this lil trick. i also bought a small pump from ace. it does a great job i dont get every little drop but i probably get 99% of the gas with it. i let the gas water mixture sit usually for a day but you can tell when its completely separated.

Turbo Pump Hand Operated Plastic 42.6 in. Fluid Transfer Pump - Ace Hardware

Turbo Pump is the automatic liquid transfer pump that makes transferring gas, water, and other liquids fast and easy. The powerful suction impeller pumps liquids at a speedy 2.5 gallons per minute and the convenient auto-stop sensor prevents spillovers. Cordless, lightweight and portable - use...

www.acehardware.com

 

[Burnham]

40 to 1 is a leaner mix than 50 to 1? That doesn't compute in my little brain.

 

[lxskllr]

The argument is 40 is heavier in oil, therefore leaner in fuel. I don't completely buy it. There may be some truth in there somewhere, but gets lost in practical application.

 

[huskihl]

The argument is 40 is heavier in oil, therefore leaner in fuel. I don't completely buy it. There may be some truth in there somewhere, but gets lost in practical application.

Semantics. Usually when you add more of the product that you add, you make the mixture richer. The screws add more fuel, the bottle adds more oil.
This new way of thinking by some is that if you add more oil to the gas, you are leaning the air/fuel ratio going through the carb because the gas got displaced by the added oil (which is technically correct). Don’t know why someone needed to complicate what was common knowledge for the last 80 years though.

I look at it in terms of viscosity. More oil makes your mix thicker. It’s a tiny amount, but it’s there. The thicker it is, the bigger the hole it needs to flow through, so you’d need to open the jets. The same thing happens with temperature changes.When it’s cold, oil is more viscous so the jets need opened more

 

[CurSedVoyce]

40:1 is more oil to fuel than 50:1 making it richer in oil cooling and lubricating the saw better.

 

[Mesquite]

@hudkihl that makes since to me but the "logic" is that the air is denser or heavier thus needs more fuel. i think it could be both, depending on what type of engine you are playing with.

i can already tell this is going to be a fun thread.

i think a experiment is called for, tune your saw with a 40to1 or heaver mix and then change it up to a 50to1 and see how it runs or vice versa on the mix ratio up to you. it wont burn up your saw the second you start it. see if you can tell the difference in how it runs, sounds, the power it makes?

a couple of months ago when i switched from 2.6ounce per gal (on little bottle you pour into the gallon to make 50to1) to 3 ounce per gal plus i switched to klotz mix from the stihl mix. i had to recalibrate my ms201tc. it was acting funny, after the recalibration, the funnyness went away.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

You richen the fuel with the carb or lean it. The oil is a lubricant for the engine. You will not "lean out" the engine fuel by adding 2 stroke oil.

 

[Burnham]

That is the way I look at it too, Stephen. I do not follow the other point of view at all.

 

[Jonny]

It’s a haul, I get it, it’s inconvenient, but I’d still suggest going to the closest pump with ethanol free and stock up for 2 or 3 months.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

No such animal in CA inless you cheat with aviation Low Lead or racing fuel.
Or get the premix stuff. If you use a decent mix oil, it has stabilizer that helps with the ethanol issues. Sincr I only use the Stihl top grade mix, motors last longer and rarely a fuel issue. We run in temps below freezing to over 100* F. Altitides from 700 feet above sea level to 8000 feet above. Saws run a tad rich at those elevations so need to lean the high needle. 700- 3000 feet does not require much in adjustment unless high temps. Running 40:1 helps with the high temps.

 

[stig]

Jaysus, I just fill the saw with premixed alkylate and go logging.
No reason to turn it into a religion.

 

[huskihl]

You richen the fuel with the carb or lean it. The oil is a lubricant for the engine. You will not "lean out" the engine fuel by adding 2 stroke oil.

It can, potentially. If a guy was running (and was tuned for) Amsoil at 100:1 like the bottle claims you can, and then runs a thick oil like Motul or BelRay at 32:1, the saw will run very lean. Similar to having the saw tuned for 90° in July and then using it in winter when it’s only 20° without retuning

 

[ruel]

We run 91 with ethanol, no problems noted. Not 40 hrs a week of saw time, but occasionally 6 hrs a day for weeks in a row.

Way more messing about than I'm willing to do for minor improvements. Sharp chain probably goes farther in prolonging saw life but who knows?