Tsumura bars

[Nutball]

I was about to say. That must be the reason racers use cannon fat belly, because they are the only fat belly. At least the only commonly available.

 

[Frankie]

Is there any other manufacturer that do fat belly bars?

Magnus not that I’m aware of ... woodland pro has a canon bar ; this is not quality like a “cannon” bar made in Canada that are precision ground and the rails hardened... maybe the one “n” makes all the difference in the world !

 

[Frankie]

I was about to say. That must be the reason racers use cannon fat belly, because they are the only fat belly. At least the only commonly available.

The reason they use belly bars is because chain likes to go around in a circle ... plus the are running 10,11,up to 16 pin Rims ... if you go past 9 or 10pin in stock saw the angle changes because the diameter is MUCH larger and the chain wood derail much more often than 7 or 8 pin ...

 

[Nutball]

I know why they use them, I was just agreeing with Magnus that racers probably don't use them for long life, but for the width because few if any other brands have them.

 

[Magnus]

I remember the discussions on internet forums that lead up to the making of the belly bar. Its a small market no money in it.
I had contact with a bar manufacturer at the time that coincided doing it but I could not take the costs.
Since I can't compete and market was pretty small I passed on it. The one I needed I made myself.
I do have these in collection:

 

[Cut4fun]

I never heard seen cannon bars in orange or white. Any pics of these?

Only bars I knew of in both orange was GB Ti and white GB Pro. Sounds like to me anyways.

This 20" cannon bar cost me $200 12-14 years ago. Just not cost effective for me to buy for daily use. Heck price their new LW bar.

Oh I knew of a oregon belly bar made to order out west for a guy. Belly bars best for the bikesaws. Not for the chainsaw cased saws.

Then a GB pro top.

 

[Frankie]

$200 For a 20” Cannon 3/8 .050 10+yrs ago ??? .... heck I can get em delivered to my door for $100 ... only in “Ohio”

 

[Frankie]

I remember the discussions on internet forums that lead up to the making of the belly bar. Its a small market no money in it.
I had contact with a bar manufacturer at the time that coincided doing it but I could not take the costs.
Since I can't compete and market was pretty small I passed on it. The one I needed I made myself.
I do have these in collection:
View attachment 98181

If you have the skills you may “build one” yourself ... cut in half and weld insert between , lotta work but can be done !

 

[Cut4fun]

Special order a cannon made to spec for big gear etc with roller tip . Only in NY wouldnt see that

Bet you cant get one like it for 100

 

[Frankie]

Let’s see it cut ! Or is it just another “Ohio shelf-queen” ?

 

[Cut4fun]

For one I wont own a shelf queen

Go to webster, chardon, murray race videos and you can see a slow azz operator (me) make a saw look slow.
The guy I sold it to, qualified it 1st at webster and took 2nd in finals. Hotsaws that meet the 140cc size limit from around the world race at this show.

Dont worry you will never understand what all goes into these saws.

Lets see you cold start a saw and make 3 cuts for a timed cut.

Old video of first cuts one year with a cull dull chain. We race in aspen sometimes so was testing in aspen.

 

[Frankie]

Uhh ... yah ... I don’t build “race saws” nor do I run them - not really practical for my application 😉 ... As far as your comment of “dont worry you will never understand what goes all into these saws”..... You’d be surprised at what I understand about “what all goes into these saws “ Lotta guys yappin ,oohs and aahs ,coulda woulda shoulda blah blah blah ... could care less bro - you can turn wrenches and grind cylinders all day and you’ll never touch me hourly rate runnin em bro ! This beauty will clear 100/hr no problem ..course in “Ohio” it’s probably less ...

 

[Frankie]

 

[Frankie]

One time I was visiting Cincinnati Ohio and stopped in a dept store to p/u a pair of pants ... Every pair was button - fly ! I looked and looked to no avail ! Finally the help noticed my angst and asked me if I needed some assistance... I asked for a pair of pants with a zipper ... the help replied “we only sell button-flys here in Cincinnati” puzzled I asked why ... she responded “ the sheep can hear a zipper from a mile away” !

 

[Nutball]

Sugihara bars are nearing Tsumara/Total prices around here. I remember when they were commonly found somewhere in the $180-260 range, at least on ebay.

 

[Magnus]

I got the names mixed up. I meant GB. Colors used to indicate were they were made.
Cannon I have one or two in collection, but never run them, They never sold here.
I made a couple solid bars. First was just as there was no bar to find for the saw I had.
Then I wanted to see what why it so important with hardened rails, what and how much difference it gets.
Bar tip was trixy and I have not the right tools to machine with so it got welded on there.
But with a bunch of good grinder disks, a lot of patience and some careful use you can make a solid bar.

Can't find a pic of the home made smaller bars. I thought I had one left some were.
They weren't pretty anyway, more for education. I learned a lot from the experiment.

 

[BeerGeek]

Sugihara bars are nearing Tsumara/Total prices around here. I remember when they were commonly found somewhere in the $180-260 range, at least on ebay.

@Nutball Where are you seeing those prices for Sugi bars? Our sponsor has a large selection of their bars and the top price is $190 for the 36" ones brand new (which are the largest they have, if I remember correctly). Other sites have them at comparable prices as well., and I've seen them around those ranges for the last 3-4 yrs.

 

[Cut4fun]

Magnus, the little orange GB bars are china made and soft with real iffy tips.

The orange Titanium and white pro top only Aussie made ones.

Info I have saved on GB.

These 2 below are made in Australia

CN40 Titanium Bars CN40 Titanium Bars - http://www.gbforestry.com.au/store/chainsaw-products/chainsaw-bars/cn40-titanium-bars

Pro Top Bars Pro Top Bars - http://www.gbforestry.com.au/store/chainsaw-products/chainsaw-bars/pro-top-bars

Chainsaw bars. GB Arborpro and Arbortech bars made in China Chainsaw Bars - http://www.gbforestry.com.au/store/chainsaw-products/chainsaw-bars

MCW from Oz

As you'd know there have been a number of posts and threads here and on other forums regarding the production of GB bars and which country they've been coming from. I have been involved in a number of these posts/threads and this has been ongoing for many years.
There have been some changes in the packaging and bar labelling over the last few years that have not really made sense from a marketing point of view. For example the "Made In Australia" name is a major selling point. It is no different to seeing "Made In Germany" or "Made In The USA" on a product - you know it will be good with the odd exception.
For some reason GB changed their labelling to simply "Australia" and it could be assumed that something had changed in their manufacturing process. There was no feedback from anybody at GB and the rumour mill started. The fact that Stens in the US were no longer the GB distributor there also added fuel to the fire.

Now I am man enough to admit that in one of the threads here I had a fair crack at Gregg the other day who is now the US GB distributor. I basically said that no proof existed on GB's manufacturing in Australia and it is fair to say that even some Australian chainsaw dealers with GB accounts were unsure of what was going on at GB.

No doubt Gregg contacted GB in Australia regarding my posts and all of a sudden Michael Kennedy who is the managing director of GB in Australia has joined AS and set the record straight in "The All Aussie Dribble Thread". He has offered me a tour of the GB Australian manufacturing plant which I unfortunately can't take on at this stage (being an 8 hour drive!) and has outlined exactly what is going on there. He set me straight on a number of things and I've never been happier to be proven wrong! I use GB Pro Tops and Ti bars regularly however everything I use is old stock - they are some of the best bars on the market and I have 24" and 32" Pro Tops here with around 500 hours on them which have a lot of life left in them yet. To hear that they are still being made in Australia is awesome!

Therefore...

The GB harvester bars, the GB Ti bars, and the GB Pro Tops are STILL being made in Australia. They have NEVER been made overseas!!!

Their consumer line of bars are not and are coming from China. This isn't uncommon and basically all consumer priced bars are now coming out of Asia with Stihl being the exception (there may be others?).

The fact that somebody from GB has finally had the time to respond to AS member's questions and concerns is great. I have always stated that I'd really like to be proven wrong on GB and I finally have been

I'd like to apologise to Gregg but would also like to thank him for prompting somebody from GB to come in and set the record straight. I've quoted some of Michael's posts below which outlines a number of points.

This was Michael's response to a question about their packaging...
Michael Kennedy said:

It's a funny question because the cover (sleeve) on the Ti and ProTops is the only part of it that was not made in Australia.
The sleeves have always been printed in China. Although the bearings are from Switzerland.


MCW Swiss bearings explains why you can't bloody kill the nose on a Pro Top!!! I don't think anybody would complain about Swiss bearings being used.

This was the response to me regarding GB's harvester bars which I'd always been told were produced in Australia...

Michael Kennedy said:

Thanks Matt, it's true in Australia here we are mainly focussed on harvester bars because that's where we can still compete. Also the extra long chainsaw bars, double ended mill bars, all Lucas Mill bars and any other specialist bars are a big part of the Aussie business. In Australia we're not too fussed about competing with the consumer range of bars because it simply isn't economical to do so. However, we do still have a good list of loyal dealers that keep the chainsaw side of it ticking along. As I explained to Gregg and as I will explain again here the cost of producing the Ti bars is quite prohibitive but if people are prepared to pay for the quality and if the margins are still there we will continue to do so. I cannot be any clearer than this - Ti & ProTop bars have never been made anywhere else but Australia.

MCW Finally this was Michael's response to a web link from a Chinese company who said they had entered into a business relationship with GB a few years ago (Tom Beerens owns GB)...

Michael Kennedy said

Qirui Tools do not and will not make GB Arbor Series bars. These bars and noses are stock left over from a failed partnership between Tom Beerens and Wang Wei Ming (owner of Qirui Tools). They set up a company and factory together to make consumer bars and for whatever reason they had a falling out. Qirui got left holding the stock and Tom has set up his own factory in China where he has lived for the past 3 years or so. Qirui has been trying to offload these bars for quite some time now.


MCW Good stuff Gregg with your new business and your customers can rest assured that if they buy a Ti bar or Pro Top it is definitely Made In Australia and that they'll be buying one of the best bars ever made with a nose sprocket that can't be killed!

 

[Cut4fun]

Sugihara bars are nearing Tsumara/Total prices around here. I remember when they were commonly found somewhere in the $180-260 range, at least on ebay.

Sugi always been way more then Tsu here. I just sold that 24 Tsu lightweight D009 mount for $65. Price a LW 24" 3/8 050 in the sugi.

 

[Cut4fun]

My local cannon dealer to me. Said things have changed on making bars to order anymore. = Cannon will make you ten bars for a custom design they wont do singles anymore and a 20” roller is about $350 each

$200 race bar back then dont look so bad at all now. Makes me glad I got out of that racing stuff.

Heck he even gave me a hat when I was at his shop.

 

[stig]

This was a fine thread that goes back to the good old days, before Frankie made all our pro saw builders leave the 'House.

I don't know how Carls mind works, but I guess to him a nameless troll is worth 2 professional saw builders................whatever.

Be that as it may, I finally got to the point where we have to get new bars.
Not my doing, I haven't been able to wear a bar out since april 9th.

I'll get back to y'all on how they last compared to Stihl and Oregon light bars.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd like to get something nice for my little saws. My big stuff's all Stihl, so I run Stihl bars. They're hard to beat imo. My little saws use WoodlandPro. Hard to get excited about them, but better than stock, and a bit cheaper. I'll be interested in hearing your professional opinion stig.

 

[stig]

We switched from Stihl light bars to Oregon Versa cut light bars.
Versa cut is 30 grammes heavier than Stihl but WAY cheaper.
I honestly can't tell any difference in how long they last, so we switched to Oregon.
Now well see how well the Tsumura stuff does.

For someone not running saws 2000 hours a year, I'd say go for Oregon versa cut.

Hell, we run saws that much ( When we don't fall down stairs and get busted up) and that is what we run.

 

[Ed L]

Tsurmura used to make the Total bars for Stens (now closed aftermarket supplier).
I've used them on/off since the 80's.
Think I've got 3 left, IME, they are a good bar, never noticed any high wear, tips have held up too.

Ed

 

[stig]

Cutforfun wrote me privately to say that iuf you do a lot of bvorecutting, the tips on thge Tsumura light bars don't hoild up well.

For sure!!!!

On the last 3 20" I've used, the tip has exploded within a week.

I won't be buying any more.

Just ordered a dozen Oregon versa cut instead.