This is the Akimbo

[Porkbrick]

you have more than i do!

 

[cory]

Great avatar!

 

[pantheraba]

you have more than i do!

That's hilarious!!!

And I agree on the avatar...it caught my eye too!

 

[PCTREE]

Jamie if you had it to do over would you bother doing it all again? I'm sure all the whiney ass mofos bitching about their units being late must have been stressful as heck.

 

[Porkbrick]

I probably would do it again Paul. i cant help myself. it certainly has been stressful at times, but im kind of flattered that people want something i built so bad their driven to ranting about it on the internet. ive been making things with my hands for as long as i remember. the Akimbo is just the first thing ive made that really took on a life of its own.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[BeaverMonkey]

Jamie if you had it to do over would you bother doing it all again? I'm sure all the whiney ass mofos bitching about their units being late must have been stressful as heck.

Personally, I'm not trying to stress ANYBODY out - just excited to get to use one... whenever it comes out. I can't help seeing situations where I think the akimbo would be a better solution than my current gear - just keeps me thinking about it.

 

[chris_girard]

Jaime, can you see the Akimbo being used in the rope technician world (aka SPRAT and IRATA)?

 

[Porkbrick]

Chris, there has been some interest from that realm for sure. we'll have to see how well it jives with their safety standards.

 

[chris_girard]

Glad to hear it. When I get mine, I will be testing it on my own SPRAT workstations that I have setup at my yard.

I am also working on getting on the SPRAT sub-committee for the gear section, which may help to open up some minds in the industrial climbing world to the new multiscender tools that we are using in the tree care industry.

One thing that I have noticed with many years of climbing in different rope disciplines, is that EVERY one of them is reluctant to change for the better, even when something is proven to be more efficient and safer.

 

[Bermy]

I've only just joined the Vertical Rescue Team for the SES here (you have to be invited when a space becomes available) It certainly is an eye opener how gear intensive it is.
In the short time I've been on, we did a weekend of training with all the units statewide. I have to say that the system they use for returning up after doing a pick-off while quite safe and with redundant systems, could be much more sleek and smooth with some of the new hybrid, or stand alone mechanical ascender/descenders that we now have in tree work.
They still have to switch from descender system to ascender system. The chances of me having any influence are pretty slim though. I have given the unit trainer a Wesspur catalogue though

 

[Tim_B.]

they're telling me spring 2018. im going to have 100 of the first batch set aside for the gofundme donors who didnt get the silver version. we spent a fair bit of time the last month making sure all of the critical components could be redundant without changing the design too much. definitely looking at using rivets for all the joints that never have to come apart.

Jaime, may I humbly ask what the appeal is of using rivets? Is it to lower the cost of assembly? Or for speed of assembly? It's not for safety reasons, is it? I'm nobody but one possible end user of your upcoming product, but if I had a vote, I would want to see strong bolts with locking nuts get used. I think it ought to be possible for an end user to be able to disassemble and reassemble his or her unit, for the purposes of cleaning or replacement of individual components. Kind of like people who own firearms are able to completely disassemble their weapons for maintenance.

I'm not a fabricator like you are, so I have no actual knowledge of the relative strength of a rivet compared to a bolt, but my gut instinct is that a bolt would be superior. I would rather pay a higher price for a better quality product, than to see a corner get cut in an attempt to bring the product to market in a slightly more affordable configuration.

I'm a huge fan of yours, Jaime, and will be happy with whatever you decide is the right course of action for the production of your product. Thanks again for all of your hard work.

Tim

 

[Burnham]

I cannot disagree with anything in Tim's post. I look forward to your reply, J.

 

[kevin bingham]

I agree with the rivets thing. it seems no one in the manufacturing or retail world is a fan of the end user being able to disassemble their products. But I agree, I like nuts and bolts. I have had a hard time pushing that point to manufacturers outside of cmi. but to me, that's one reason why CMI sells more pulleys than anyone.

 

[treebilly]

I like nuts and bolts as well. They make for more serviceable parts, provided they are able to be purchased. Of course many of my Chevy parts are held
Together with rivets but replacements are bolted on.

 

[Tree09]

Actually rivets are superior in just about every way. They fill the entire void, are impossible to accidentally remove, and provide a larger cross section (are stronger). Bolts offer a sharp edge which will wear into the plate, have nuts that can come off accidentally due to bolt stretch or loading cycles (or improper torque like the Buckingham lanyard), and are smaller in cross section with less holding ability. You use stuff that's riveted everyday, and never think twice about it because it works so well (saw chain for example).

The reason bolts are so common with building stuff comes from ironworking. Back in the day everything was riveted, which required a certain number of people to do properly. If the crew didn't know what they were doing and didn't fully line up the plates, a weakened joint would occur, so you actually needed skilled workers that demanded good pay. Eventually metallurgical controls got to the point that a bolt could be cheaply made and would have a strength acceptable for using in this particular application. So they told everyone hey we got this newish thing that is better, so we're going to use it from now on. Bolts were undeniably weaker, but were easier to model using mathematical equations so engineers could determine the strength of the connections and would just oversize them to get the desired strength. It was easier to do in the field, so you no longer needed to pay top scale, because anyone can torque a bolt. They have advanced it now to where one guy is needed because the bolt has a smaller size spline at the end that a hydraulic torque wrench uses to keep the bolt from spinning, so you don't need a guy in the other side to hold back the bolt from spinning. They dumbed down the trade to achieve a lower labor cost, and that combined with the advances of cranes led to the decline of the ironworker profession.

 

[kevin bingham]

that's interesting! it makes sense, that was an actual trade being a riveted. It is clear that rivets are stronger and more aesthetic as well. my complaint with them is that you can't swap out parts. for me, aluminum is a preferable friction surface, but it wears quickly. with rivets you must use steel which is heavier and it still wear. to be able to swap out aluminum wear pieces is nice. or even have different pieces maybe for different rope classes. The ART products are serviceable which is nice. one of the problems with the unicender which is an amazing tool is that it wears quickly and not serviceable. but at the end of the day, maybe that's a good thing... people have to just pony up and buy another.

 

[kevin bingham]

what do you mean by a smaller sized spline? I'm trying to picture the one person's bolt. that sounds like a definite revolutionary breakthrough

 

[Tree09]

Here you go Kevin, yeah they are pretty handy lol. When it reaches proper torque the spline breaks off, so it's automatically torqued to spec. Can't possibly mess it up.

The rigging they used to do before cranes became what they are is also truly amazing.

 

[Porkbrick]

i voted for bolts in the end product. Rock Thompson was in favor of keeping the bolts. it basically boils down to liability and making the fasteners as tamper proof as possible. the guys in charge of that stuff get pretty nervous about having people taking stuff apart. when we first started negotiating way back i was expecting that they would go that way.i do like how sleek rivets will look and they are for sure stronger than a bolt of the same size. as far as servicing or parts replacement i look at it a few ways. for one, there is no reason to remove any of the bolts in the spine if the cams can be removed without doing so. for two the cams only need replacing if they last less than the safe lifespan of the tool and i think, with the adjust-ability of the akimbo and the right materials, they can last. as of right now we've made the cam axles of a design that allows the cams to be removed without disassembling the whole device. i doubt i will ever convince them to make it an end user replaceable part, but it will be replaceable. i obviously am a guy who likes tampering with his own gear, and i know there are lots of guys like me out there, but i can understand why it makes their legal dept very nervous when you start talking about tinkering.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Interesting info, guys!

 

[pantheraba]

Good lesson on splines and torque and ironworkers, Kyle...thanks.

 

[squisher]

Very interesting.

 

[Burnham]

Good stuff, boys.

 

[Matty f]

Any news from rock ??