The Problem With Tip Tying

[Mick!]

Yes, a bit naughty to say the least.

What you can do in that situation where you don’t want to let it run because

A. There is no room underneath.

B. You don’t trust the groundy enough.

C. You don’t hold with all this modern running of everything!

Is use a tag line at the bottom that you hold, so once cut it sits there like a little fly trapped in a web and you release it slowly to its drop point.

Much less dynamic and dramatic of course so no good for the cameras.

 

[kevin bingham]

I'm with Butch. Never tip tie unless your standing the piece up. Period. Grou d guy had nothing to do with that error.

 

[murphy4trees]

tell that to Reg

 

[pete mctree]

I will tip tie laterals if I need the extra leverage to swing one around. Negative rig - no way as it's gonna be hard to control.

 

[kevin bingham]

Maybe if the rigging point is directly above said tip or out further. I can see that.

 

[treebilly]

Ground guy played a part. If he let it run it would’ve been below everyone.
Basically what you said about the riffing point being almost above or further away was what I was trying to refer to as the “place” to use it.

 

[murphy4trees]

I hate when someone blames a close call like that on the ground man... Obviously tree work would be a lot safer if we all had good groundmen... And if we all had 50 million we wouldn;t be doing tree work in the first place..

Now back to reality...
Not all groundmen know what they are doing.. (this one was green)
Even the ones that do know what they are doing can make mistakes..

It makes no sense as a climber to put your safety (or the other climber's safety in this case) in the hands of the groundman, when some simple changes in the rigging can take all the risk away.... there was no reason to tip tie this piece... If it had been but tied the piece would have swing on a relatively smooth arc and slammed back into the trunk well below the other climber... he had all the room in the world for clearance...

 

[SeanKroll]

I wouldn't work anywhere near that guy.

Reminds me of a guy named Louie, I knew, brother of a college friend... just realized his moniker Lifetime-Limping Louie. Couldn't be bothered to learn safe rock climbing techniques or develop good judgment.

 

[Burnham]

Well...anyone who chooses "failure" for a user name...what's to be expected?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Anyone who does advanced rigging with a green groundie is a FOOL.

 

[Rustykfd]

Human is an interesting guy to watch. If you follow his story, you will be aware he has had a long running battle with depression, that could explain his username. He is a Vet and an ex-con, this has been professed in detail on his "channel". I wouldn't be surprised if his initial reaction to that situation was defensive in nature, that's not uncommon in "Alpha" type guys. Maybe he has learned from the mistake. I applaud the guy for being open and honest and working hard to get on the right path. I don't think he needs a public beat down for making a mistake in a tree. Sure we can learn from the video of the mistake, as I'm sure he will, but I don't see the need to crucify the guy.

 

[MasterBlaster]

We don't do that crucifying thing here.

 

[Mick!]

If you put up a work video for perusal by other pros, you can expect opinion.

 

[MasterBlaster]

But no crosses...

 

[Mick!]

It’s just a word.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Benjo75]

I watched a few of his vids a years or so ago. Very careless in my opinion. The other climber in the tree with him obviously never has.

 

[Page]

I tip tie all the time. I just did a silver maple the other day where all the leads attached low to the ground. I tied all the tips, the groundsman cut most of the buts, and the grapple came and drug everything out in the appropriate direction. Tight space in between houses and fences. Not for greenhorns. There is a time and place for most methods.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yup.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yup.

 

[Jonny]

 

[theTreeSpyder]

"LET IT DOWN!"
"Dude those are only ok if only 1 guy in the tree..."
original sawyer just laughs and scoffs at him...
.
Later comes close to lower man, and then power lines (seems)
.
i wouldn't work with that guy, especially in air; but really not even on the ground.
The only time i did singular tie to 'tip tie'(past CoG) is for lodged hurricane damage etc. to pull head out of trap by lower weight across hitch as pivot to bring head up out of trap hung in (or to keep from same). And then the other limbs etc. of trap buffered from such wild motions.
.
Kinda not one for impact on booms neither, but get that picture better(Page).

 

[Tim_B.]

The poor rope skill was a given. Human announced at the beginning of the video that it was a new guy on the ropes.. having to rely on the ground guy's skills to keep the climber safe is a sign of poor rigging skills... first and foremost ... there was no reason to put the other climber in danger no matter what the groudie did... There were a lot of options there... simply but tying it was the simplest and most common sense solution...


Poor ground skills (not letting it run at all) probably saved Human's life on the "near death" video



When there is no clearance for the tips and you don't want to bother lifting it...

But goes down, tips go up..

I was taking a 40" white oak down the same day that asplundh showed up to clear the wires, so I worked from the driveway while they worked from the street... They left a big high limb out a good ways over the wires... They were actually a lot closer to the limb than I was, but still left it..

I originally planned to set a ring up as high and as far out as I could reach, and then cut just past that.. Even with 35-40' of clearance, it looked like it was going to be close.. Probably would have cleared, but too close to take a chance, so I used a pole saw to reach out and tip tie it, then came down and cut it low enough to ensure it was but heavy.. Swung it a little to the side with the notch and as soon as it let go, the tips swung up and back away from the wires. Probably 25+' clearance.

Hey, Murphy, if you don't mind, could you explain your technique for using a pole saw to reach out and tip tie a limb? That sounds like a useful trick to have up your sleeve. Thanks in advance.

Tim

 

[MasterBlaster]

A video would be nice!

 

[Burnham]

I'm not Murphy, gad knows , but I do it like this...

Coil up enough rope to toss it over the limb and hang down enough to stay put, then reach out under the limb with the pole saw and snag the end of the rope with the teeth, pull the end back to you and tie a running bowline. It may eat the rope a tiny bit, but not badly unless you have to drag hard on it to retrieve.

You can do it with a throwbag on the end of your rigging rope, too. Don't have to toss as much extra over the top of the limb then.