"Swimming hole" tree - canker/rust/scale/blight?

[pantheraba]

Back when the kids were small we had season passes to this local pool....it looks like a lake but is a very big pool..slides, diving boards, Tarzan swing, etc...lots of fun. It has been years since we went here but with a 3 yr old grandson we have signed up again.

I have been noticing they need some help with their trees...some pretty bad pruning cuts are evident. And, there is a dead tree in a high traffic area that needs to come down...near the beach at right side of picture.

I met with the owner a few days ago and proposed taking down the dead one and also deadwooding some sweetgums and poplars in a high traffic picnic area. He agreed and I am waiting to be able to get to the trees when he isn't open for business.

Here are some pictures. Please help ID what the black areas are on the bark of the dead tree...I am pretty sure it is a tulip poplar...though there are quite a few sweetgums in that area. It is hard to tell which this one is.

I got this definition of canker from http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/hortcrop/pp697-1.htm#Canker

"Cankers may be 'superficial,' forming on the outer portion of the bark and doing little damage, or "cambial" when extended into the cambium, where the bark sloughs off and sapwood is exposed allowing subsequent decay to develop in woody stem tissues. "

There are areas on this dead tree about 10-12" square where the bark is no longer attached...it sounds hollow when tapped and when prodded with a knife there is a void beneath. The tree seems sound beneath the void areas.

The pictures I found on the web of cankers are mostly bulbous growths, nothing smooth like on this tree...so maybe canker is not correct. This canker/rust/scale/blight stuff extends up the entire tree. It looks similar to some pictures I found of hypoxylon canker but those pictures usually reference oak and aspen (so is our tulip poplar very similar to an aspen?)

None of the other trees show this type condition....yet. I am going to be on the lookout for it. About 3-4 years ago there was a drainage ditch through these trees...they put a culvert in and likely cut a lot of roots of the trees in this area. The trees I am deadwooding are within 60-90 feet of this dead tree.

Once this tree is down how should it be disposed of...it is a drop and leave situation for me. The park has tractors and manpower to haul it off and put it in the woods to decay. Should it perhaps be burned?

Long descriptions/questions, I know...hopefully, I gave you enough to puzzle it out.

Thanks for any help.

 

[pantheraba]

And here are some of their pruning cuts:

 

[treesandsurf]

Looks like some type of canker Gary. Canker from what I've thought is just an area of necrotic tissue usually caused by either bacteria or fungi. So they take a lot of forms. I'll flip through Sinclair and see if I can find something that resembles your pics. Here's a cool link:

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/plant2/mf2658.pdf

jp

 

[vharrison]

Gary, I don't know about the trees but Hayden is going to have a blast there!

 

[woodworkingboy]

Cankers can be sunken, like in your photo. Bacterial canker affects both poplar and sweetgum, and turns the wood black. Any ooze coming out?

 

[pantheraba]

Cankers can be sunken, like in your photo. Bacterial canker affects both poplar and sweetgum, and turns the wood black. Any ooze coming out?

No ooze, all looks dry so far.

JOhn, that is a very good article...I had not found it, good link.

It addresses very well what I am seeing:

"Increases in canker related tree problems are common during extended periods of drought or following sudden temperature fluctuations. Tissue damaged by early-fall or late-spring freezes, or by extreme winter temperatures are quickly colonized by canker pathogens. Drought stress can impair the plant’s ability to defend against fungal invasion. Conversely, excessive watering can kill roots and predispose plants to canker pathogens. Other factors that contribute to canker formation include root injury from construction,"

They have had drought and construction.

Gigi...you are right...Hayden loves it. There is a large shallow area where he has learned to fall over and then be able to get back up. I am helping him learn how to "bob", too.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I think that ooze is indicative of a fungus, like in bacterial canker. Seems like if it was going to ooze, it would be when the sap is up.

 

[darkstar]

You gonna climb the dead pop.

 

[Frans]

Looks like a secondary pathogen to me. Otherwise there would be bleeding.
As such, it is really ill-relevant. Kinda like determining exactly what type of maggot is feeding on a corpse.

I would say it is the usual culprits that have killed the tree. Soil compaction, bad pruning, water issues.

Where is the chlorine flushed?

 

[darkstar]

Ill second where is the clourine flushed , i see that all the time.
Could have been a lightening strick as well.

 

[FJR]

I agree with Frans. Soil compaction and damaging the root zone during the construction. Fungus is secondary. The maggot analogy is a great one I am going to remember that.

 

[treesandsurf]

Good point but it's always fun to identify who/what the secondaries are.

jp

 

[pantheraba]

Looks like a secondary pathogen to me. Otherwise there would be bleeding.
As such, it is really ill-relevant. Kinda like determining exactly what type of maggot is feeding on a corpse.

I would say it is the usual culprits that have killed the tree. Soil compaction, bad pruning, water issues.

Where is the chlorine flushed?

Good question on the chlorine but I am sure it is not near there...too close to the public.

I want to know to what extent it might be a threat to other trees...thus the burning to dispose question...plus, like John, I am curious...and also need the educating.

 

[pantheraba]

Yeah, Dark, I'll need to at least top it to make it fit...it can only go toward the water...power on the left and behind, too many trees on the right.

 

[treelooker]

the flat black stuff may be hypoxylon which is considered endophytic which means that it was in the plant already and spread after extreme stress aka strain. this means it is not infectious or pathogenic to other trees. they look like they have lots of other problems but won't be infected by the dead tree's debris. is that a tuliptree or what?

 

[Mr. Sir]

It looks exactly like the hypoxylon canker we have on our oaks around here.

 

[pantheraba]

the flat black stuff may be hypoxylon which is considered endophytic which means that it was in the plant already and spread after extreme stress aka strain. this means it is not infectious or pathogenic to other trees. they look like they have lots of other problems but won't be infected by the dead tree's debris. is that a tuliptree or what?

Hey, Guy....thanks for chiming in...I was hoping you would eval.

"infectious or pathogenic to other trees" is what I was most concerned about, so extraordinary means of disposal do not seem necessary.

Tulip poplar?...yes, that it is.

Mr. Sir...I am seeing similar lesions on oaks here, also.

 

[darkstar]

Down south we call umm tulip poplar,
but, correct me if im wrong, to most of the world they are actually just tulip trees.

 

[treelooker]

Hey, Guy....thanks for chiming in...I was hoping you would eval.

"infectious or pathogenic to other trees" is what I was most concerned about, so extraordinary means of disposal do not seem necessary.

Tulip poplar?...yes, that it is.

Mr. Sir...I am seeing similar lesions on oaks here, also.

the black shiny stage is the young stage. tan dusty is the reproductive look. black and bumpy is advanced--watch out! Blinky can tell you about that.

Hypoxylon is a global rotter--it's been a big part of 2 dendro stories, attached. o dam no pdf's here; o well

 

[squisher]

You should host your PDF's somewhere and then you could provide links.

 

[Mr. Sir]

Watch out indeed. It doesn't take long for oak wood to go from green to dry and brittle with hypoxylon canker. A couple of weeks and 12" limbs are busting out.

 

[pantheraba]

Watch out indeed. It doesn't take long for oak wood to go from green to dry and brittle with hypoxylon canker. A couple of weeks and 12" limbs are busting out.

Alright, then...here is a question. I need to top the tree, don't have a bucket.

It sounds like I need to ascertain the tree is strong enough to be climbed and to withstand the forces involved in taking a top. My first thought is to set a pull line in the top and put a strong slow pull on it to see how the tree behaves.

Or maybe tie in on the right tree and use only a lanyard in the dead tree? It would be a bit of a pendulum in case of bailout.

Any other ideas?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Isn't it possible to top that sucka without climbing very high up...caution considering?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Don't you have a Big Shot?

 

[pantheraba]

Isn't it possible to top that sucka without climbing very high up...caution considering?

A smallish top would fit best and keep the wood away from the water...I don't want the dead top shattering and making a mess in the water.

I'll have to look closer...maybe a top 1/3 of overall tree will fit OK. Too big a top makes me a bit skittish in case the wood doesn't hold like I want it to...those power lines aren't close...unless the top is too big and errant.