Stihl top handles.

Not if at all has ethanol in it, which it does in a lot of places now.
 
The 200 is an edgy saw and it's built to do things other saws can't do. It's gonna have issues just like an F1 car is gonna have issues. Light and fast has a price.

Mine newest one has the same issue Topnotch has. Shut it down while it's at idle and it won't stay started on the first pull... half choke, stays started.

I'd rather do that than screw with a temperamental Husky in the tree at the end of the day. I think Huskys cut fine, they just don't start worth a damn.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
I've been running 92-93 octane in the saws and Royal Purple for six years, everytime I look at that poor 350 I figure I'm going to have to rebuild it. Take the muffler off and the piston is nice and oily and smooth as a babies butt.
That's what chaps my ass the most, damn cheap homeowner saw and I can't kill it, but I sure can't keep these high dollar Stihls running for jack!
I also agree, Stihl has to know this is an issue, certainly the cracking carbs that Al and Brian see all the time, but yet they don't do anything about it. As much as they cost, they damn well should!
 
Cobleskill said:
For the money they cost you would think Stihl would have the problem solved by now, wouldn't cha? I am leaning towards a Husky.
Click to expand...
This carb issue is not a new problem. When the MS200 came out 9 yrs ago the Stihl rep loaned me a demo. The thing wouldn't idle ,dieing out off idle. So I bought one thinking another one wouldn't have the same problem. Not.
The dealer ended up changing the carb. Always ran Stihl Ultra syn. mix and regular gas to avoid extra dose of ethanol in premium.
Willard.
 
Two things to keep in mind .First a 200t is a race horse of little saws ,none other like it in the world .Secondly that little carb is built with a special internal pump within it ,it's in a class all it's own too .

I'm thinking they must have designed the carb because a trim saw goes from idle to WOT about a thousand times a day and makes usually little short timed cuts .

My guess is perhaps the carb is old enough it has the softer check valves and perhaps has degraded from the ethanol .The newer kits have the innards made of a mylar type material which is more robust than buna N .

Probabley a new kit would have fixed it rather than a 90 dollar carb but what's done is done .Now you have one to rebuild for the "next " time of which beyond a shadow of a doubt will happen given enough time .
 
Another after thought on these carbs .If it's cracked in the fuel chamber ,myself and several others have repaired them with "red loctite " with fairly good success .One gent on another forum pulls the welch plug and seals the little pump circuit off .

Now as to that I don't know enough about that damned carb to attempt that so I never tried it .I guess there's a little brass gizmo buried in that thing someplace .All I figured I would do is totally screw it up if I messed with it .Best to leave sleeping dogs lie .
 
Andy, disassembly and cleaning a carb can solve a lot of problems. Thirty minutes plus some carb cleaner. Check diaphragms for irregularity.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
I cleaned it last night Jay, no love.
Al, this isn't a $90 carb, I made a call to a buddy, if it fixes it, cool I'm out a little cash, if not, box it up and send it back. No Stihl dealer involved on this deal.
 
This is posted by Andy aka: Lakeside about 4-5 years ago. Have you pulled the screen in yours to check it or tossed it altogether?

020T and MS200t are great saws when they run and a PITA to correctly diagnose and fix when the don't - mostly due to the very small form factor and difficulty of service. This is the one saw we almost never make "shop rate" on as they take so long to get going right, and we can't pass it on the real cost to the customer.


Having said that..


Best thing to do is pressure test the entire saw to make sure the seals, boots and impulse are correct. Maye you don't have the tester or adapters, but really helps you pinpoint the problems.

Check the Exhaust screen - often these are blocked leading to an over rich problem that blocks them more, and worse, can build up carbon in the cylinder exhaust to the point where it's almost blocked off.

Start with the carb - if the settings are close to standard - about 1 turn out on H and L, and it still does what you describe, just rebuilt it.

Look at the impulse line (take off the rewind starter side cover). It joins onto a nipple of the crankcase, winds up though the to cover and into the back of the carb box mount. It can get pinched or flattened, making it hard to start or run.

Pull out the fuel hose and check it for leaks or flattening.

Check the Boot - you really need to remove the handle to do this... the boots tear near where the plastic flange that holds it in place is mounted. Boots often tear because one or more AV mounts is damaged or missing, and the user continues to operate the saw and stresses the boot.

Crank seals... If the carb is set much richer than standard on the L setting, it's often an indicator of bad crank seals - the carb has been adjusted in an attempt to compensate for the air leak..

TIP: Before you take the handle assy apart, just pull off the side cover, and take a picture of how it is assembled - will save you a lot of head scratching later... also, when reinserting the carb, push it just onto the mount screws, then attach the throttle linkage, and then push the Carb all the way down. If you mount the carb first, you won't be able to attach the linkage without bending the rods - bad thing to do...
 
Good old Lakeside Andy certainly was a wealth of info before he got a tad annoyed with a certain site like many of us did .

That last paragraph speaks volumes about the tricky little saws regarding how tightly things fit and the extra measures you have to go through to assemble or reassemble them . This is not your granddaddys Homelite that's for sure .:)
 
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  • #41
Thanks Kevin, and yes, Andy is missed GREATLY!
But as I said, I have a NIB carb on the way from a VERY generous and GREAT friend. If it doesn't fix it, I pay shipping back, if it fixes it, it's less than I can buy a rebuild kit for.
IF it fixes it, I will gladly add to (Brian's I think?) thread on the problems with this carb as I dissect it. But as I said, this saw hasn't even been run enough to be broken in yet.
 
Just dumped chips at Andy's last Friday. I'll tell him ya'll miss him. Main reason he quit AS was that, after 25,000 posts, he needed to quit spending time there. You should see his shop...all kinds of new metal fabrication tools ...

I'm gonna bring the Wraptor over and give him a ride sometime soon. There's a nice cottonwood that will be a fun 90 foot ride....or scads of 150-180 foot firs...all around his place and the lake.

And I gotta get some saw work done...figure out why my 5100's have hot starting issues...and do some case repair on an old 056 mag 2 I picked up a while back.
 
I suppose I'm just lucky...both my 200T and 200 rear handle get run intermittently, have fuel left in them for a month or more at a time, and ethenol is 10 percent of all grades of fuel hereabouts. I have had zero problems. Easy starts, easy idles, run like scalded dogs, especially the rear handled one.

The 200T is the older of the two, I've had it 4 years. The rear handle is only 2 years old, but it has nearly as many hours as the top handle at this point 'cause I pull it out for ground level work far more often.

Of course, by posting this I have insured that the next time I need one of them, it'll go gunny on me :D.
 
The dealer gave me some stuff to try in the gas that is supposed to help the water/alcohol separation issues in the fuel. When I get home today I'll scan the info and post it for you all. I will make a gallon of mix with this stuff and run it through one piece of equipment to see how it does.
Hope that does not become a truism B :lol:
 
Untill Burnham posted, I had decided that Ethanol must be the cause of all the problems.
Because I have never had any problems of that kind with my t200s.
And since I run my saws on alkylate fuel, I figured it must be the ethanol messing with all your saws in the US.

Now Burnham has put a stake through the heart of that theory:cry:
 
I talked with a Klotz tech and he stated some 2 mix oils mix with ethanol and stay mixed and some to most out there dont. This could be a problem for some, check your mix to see if it mixes with alcohol and stays mixed.
He stated R50 was a no no even though some run it with ethanol gas, he said it might be safe to 10%, but over that troubles. The Klotz I run Super or Original are both made to mix with alcohol and he said I shouldnt ever see a problem. None yet, even in 7 month old mix that has been setting in plastic holding container. Never seen a separation when dumping older fuels from saws to go in mowers and truck either.
 
I can't really say I've had a problem with oil seperation but then again if the mix gets about a month old I dump it in my old tractor .The old Fergueson could care less ,it will burn anything .
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #49
Be nice to see Andy come over here, he might like the slower pace more, and certainly wouldn't get bugged as much! But it's up to him.
Still waiting on the carb, probably get it Tuesday.
 
I am going to throw this in for what it is worth when trying to fix carb problems.

A good soaking in white gas or Coleman campstove fuel is a good solvent dip for carbs

Changing out the diaphrams and the fuel inlet needle that come in those kits do little to improve performance unless the gaskets are leaking air or the fuel inlet needle isn't seating. The only way to find this out is to have some kind of pressure tester.

If the carb especially those Zama carbs that have a Welsh plug in the metering chamber this is usually where the trouble is that causes running problems due to blockage under the plug. I think that circuit under the Welsh plug is the primary circuit for idle and low speed adjustment and acceleration. Anyway if this circuit is plugged you might as well buy a new carb because it is almost impossible to get it unplugged and get new Welsh plug to reseal properly. Sthil was and might still be having problems in this area of those Zama carbs due to ethanol eating up the sealant they were using. Last I heard they have solved the sealant problem.

When you tear down your carbs pull out the H and L screws and spray some carb cleaner with those little tubes they furnish into the empty needle holes. Open choke and throttle plate and see if carb juice is getting into the venturi of the carb. If those passages are clear you should easily be able to see the carb cleaner entering the venturi which is the big hole in the middle of the carb.:lol: Reapeated squirts may be needed to open and clear the passage, a little air and I mean a little air from an aircompressor won't hurt either, never full force from the blow gun attachment.

Not done yet, if you can locate the low and high speed jets on the metering side of the carb do the same thing with carb cleaner and a light touch with the blow gun.

Just be careful with the carb spray you don't need for it to back spray and get an eyeful of the stuff. Been there and it burns like heck.

This is what I do when I have carb problems if this doesn't solve the problem and every thing else checks out then it is time for a new carb.
 
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