Sharpening: part 2, square chisel chain.

Yup, no more Silveys anymore. Probably why he would pay that.
I got a hella deal on it from a guy getting out of the business. But i cut a lot of big trees. If the tree is likely to be clean, square goes on. Yard trees get the round.
 
Well I have had a file kicking about for ages & I finally decided to have a go. Not finding it easy (especially as I am starting off with round ground chain) but the results are impressive. I can’t sharpen from the outside in though. A lot of learning ahead I think. Might be a project for you @stig when your hand improves 37857823-748E-483B-9B36-55CE54A2B71A.jpeg
 
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Top plate angle on Stihl square ground, RSLK, is minimal, maybe 10*. I think that's why it rip cuts so well.
 
Bump. When I got Mr Beranek’s book years ago I glanced at the section on square chain sharpening and decided it was too difficult and round chain was more appropriate for my type of use and experience level. Recently I got a new saw and accidentally ordered a bunch of square chisel chain. Instead of sending it back I tried it out. Cuts great like you already know. Since then I have been diving deep into Jake’s video of Jed and also Masden’s and Oregon’s on line information. This afternoon (late to the party) I searched and found this thread. I don’t even have a file yet and I might already be hooked. If I don’t succeed I can always go back to round chain but this is really appealing when I have some indoor time this winter.
 
Have any of you square filed 620D5AC4-4DDB-4181-B4E6-FF0C0D0E4879.jpeg 83C03C12-4463-4993-A2BA-7E55B95D4CDA.jpeg 5EBC96E2-2DE5-46AA-AA2C-ABB1E5EE335B.jpeg on Husqvarna H23?
The pictographs on the package seem to suggest a 3/16” round file. It looks like they are recommending filing it different from round chain with, what Madsens calls, 25 deg outside top plate
angle and filing upward 10 degree. 5D814415-353B-4343-803E-F626C00C51F9.jpeg
 
While I am still waiting for a “triangular” (hexagonal) file from Frawleys, I am starting to get cold feet about flat filing this Husqvarna H23 chain. 1) They seem to recommend round file on the package. 2( I discovered Husq sells a round file guide designed for this chain. 3) Looking at the factory grind closely it looks like a round file would maintain the same geometry perfectly.
 
Not sure I'd put too much weight on what the box says. Round file is the "default" style most places around the world, so unless you're buying square ground chain, a round file will be the default assumption. If the chain's particularly expensive, and you don't want to experiment, pickup a loop of Carlton or something to practice on.

Note I haven't fully read the thread, so if you previously stated you're an experienced square filer, you may want to disregard the previous, though I still wouldn't treat the box as gospel. I think a skilled square filer could make any chisel chain cut better than round ground.
 
A properly sharpened square chain, be it by file or stone, will cut circles around a round filed square chain.

A chisel cutter has a top plate and a side plate. top cutter / side cutter. A chisel file, or properly dressed stone, sharpens both the top plate and the side cutter. The corner where the two planes meet must be as close to perfect or it's not going to cut as well as it could.

A round file scarfs out the side cutter and leave the corner with a hook. It cuts, but not as well or as smooth.

It took me years to learn how to sharpen chisel chain, and once I did, as a professional faller, my jug of gas was cutting more trees (logs), and I started making more money.
 
I'm too old for changing my ways, but after running square ground in California, I thought about changing over.
Never got around to it, which I somewhat regret.
 
I have stuck at it this summer but only for my forestry saw & top handle - when I get it right it puts a smile on my face for sure and the increase in performance is a huge benefit, but the unavailability of square ground chain makes it a chore to get a chain started.
 
These threads popup, and get me thinking "Hmm...", but I'm reluctant to try it out. I'm generally unconcerned with performance as long as it hits "acceptable", and at this point, I do a competent job with a round file, and I'm not sure I want to start all over again. I also run semi chisel chain as a default, though I do have a couple loops of full chisel. The one saw I'm most curious about is my 2511, but I think semi chisel is a good stock chain for that, and the times a really sharp chisel would shine would be offset by grabbiness on small stuff. Dunno. I may still try it at some point just to say I tried, but I don't think now's that point.
 
Like many people in this forum I started cutting with round chain.

Look at the side cutter on round chain. It's not flat. It's curved. It's a gouge. It's designed around a round file, which when set and angled just right will sharpen both top plate and side plate (gouge). You can be off a little on the angles with round chain and it will still cut OK. Because it's round. There's less relative angles to think about.

Square chain is square. like the corner of box. Relative angles between the two planes, the corner where they meet, the attack angle of each plane, and the undercut of each plate are are all set by very minute and relative changes in file angle. It's hard to nail down in words exactly but once you understand it it's like riding a bicycle, or playing fiddle. You have to master it.

Now going from hand filing square chain to grinding square chain was a whole new learning experience for me. I sure for anyone who takes the The end result is nearly exactly the same, but achieving it by either method is a totally different school of thinking. One of the main reasons why is because the grindstone is round. Sorta kinda like fitting a circle into a Square.
 
yup, hand filing square ground is a bit of a pita because you need to manage 3 angles at the same time while filing. Round ground is only 2 angles which is easily done. I think if a person really wants to use square grind on a regular basis it probably makes more sense to invest in a square grinder...at least that's what I did.
 
I concur.

My first grinder was a Silvey Razor-sharp. $475 bugs in 1988. 20 years later I was offered $400 for it, and let'er go, and the fellow told me "It feels like I'm stealing it from you." Far as I know it's still working today.
 
Yeah, I've got the Silvey Razor II which I think is a later version. I'm pretty sure I could sell it for more than I paid for it now days. Not many square grinders made any longer.
 
I would be curious as to what any experienced square ground users and filers think of the STIHL file explained in the attached tutorial.
 

Attachments

  • CSO 108 Filing Square Ground Chain.pdf
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I've never seen those, but it looks OK to me. If you think about it, the portion of the more traditional six sided file used on chisel chain is pretty much the same as what's in play with these triangular ones..
 
I can get sqr/rnd to within 5-8% of sqr/sqr chain if I grind it to my specs... hand file sqr/rnd I’m lucky to be 10-15% of sqr/sqr. I sent some chains to Jedi to hand file / grind , they should be arriving shortly and I’m interested in seeing how they perform , Jedi style
 
Came across a splendid video on square filing! This gent has the straight-goods .... and you get to brush up on your French ! ... ....
 
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