sales

The rest of the crew is raking, finishing chipping, returning trucks to the shop, dumping, maintenence, or most likely drinking beer :lol: Foremen often work after the crew is done, even in construction where they would be picking up materials, laying out the next steps, fixing stuff, doing paperwork like permits or dig tickets, etc. An hour or two after the day is done can do a bunch of bids, and it likely wouldn't have to be every day. In the kind of construction i do bids take weeks to do, cost 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars (sometimes paid for by the bidder), and are done exclusively by dedicated estimators. I could see large land clearing jobs being somewhat similar, but for residential jobs i would think a foreman would be the next best thing from the owner.
 
One other thing don't put your sales guy strictly on commission, that will definitely cause issues. Pay them a good salary with a good bonus. Less likely to make up stories to just get payed. You want someone who knows the job knows what it takes, and is reasonably personable.
 
And so you are paying your lead to leave the job after busting his ass and now he needs to look and act his best to sell more work?Does he need to come back to that original job he was on, make sure clean up was on point, customer is happy? The lead can sell work while in the neighborhood but doesn't have time in his day to chase new work. It's one thing to have the lead come out of the tree at lunch to talk to a potential customer. I've done that. It works when I can talk to the next door neighbor. But I just took pictures and gave a card to an estimator or the owner. Gave them my opinion but it was on them to do the sales.
Tree09 said:
The rest of the crew is raking, finishing chipping, returning trucks to the shop, dumping, maintenence, or most likely drinking beer :lol: Foremen often work after the crew is done, even in construction where they would be picking up materials, laying out the next steps, fixing stuff, doing paperwork like permits or dig tickets, etc. An hour or two after the day is done can do a bunch of bids, and it likely wouldn't have to be every day. In the kind of construction i do bids take weeks to do, cost 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars (sometimes paid for by the bidder), and are done exclusively by dedicated estimators. I could see large land clearing jobs being somewhat similar, but for residential jobs i would think a foreman would be the next best thing from the owner.
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Also a bunch of bids? A bid that involves dropping and cleaning up, depending on complexity, where said tree is, obstacles. May take a bit more than ten minutes. And that's assuming your new job is next door. If you want your foreman to leave the job and look at jobs then he needs a truck that is his and his alone.
 
09 I'm not busting your stones. I'm just telling you what I've seen and dealt with over the last 30 years. Not treework, true, but still labor intensive. In the field I had my estimators cards. If you as a potential customer asked for an estimate I would come down and look at what you wanted. Provided it was next door. If not, here's a card. If it was next door, pictures and scope of work, and a card. Take information back to estimator and move on to the next job.
 
Often your lead doesn't know what you as the company needs to make on the job to pay everything and still make some profit.
 
For B2B, I am a big believer in high if not 100% variable. In B2C I believe a high variable comp can breed poor sales behavior if unchecked.
 
I simply posted what i think would work best, which is likely wrong lol. If you gotta babysit someone cleaning up they aren't worth having around imo, so the foreman leaving early shouldn't be a problem. He's not gonna look his best, but that's the exact point. The mechanic who's covered in oil, the welder black from soot, the doctor covered in blood lol, the technical people are the most trusted in our society. I think the future customer will notice that this is the guy who is coming to do this, not some guy in dress clothes and a sports car. This is the guy who's going to be in their yard, doing the work, not a guy paid to sell stuff. I'm from a certain segment in construction that's completely different from this, the tree business is a side deal for me but I've been doing residential work for myself since i was 12. Much like i noticed that i was more popular at the bar when i was wearing bibs straight from work, an actual working person carries a different connotation when bidding in my eyes. Even in construction the smart customer is asking the hands the questions, not the owner of the company.

The forman will know the crews abilities the best, often better than the owner, and the extra hours is often a nice reward for being the foreman. A little gravy windshield time, relaxing in the ac a bit, radio going, and some time to decompress before heading home. Giving him the responsibility also shows him that he's a critical member of the team and gives him the opportunity to rise to the occasion, meaning that he will view his role in the company as more than just a job. My first job i ran as a fitter was over a million dollar bid, had 10 guys, and covered a large work area. By giving people the tools and info they need to do the job and then letting them do it, they will most often amaze you with their capabilities. Honestly unless they are truly slugs you will have far better luck getting out of their way. I remember the owner wasn't happy about something and asked if the crew wasn't up to par, i quickly informed him that if the crew wasn't performing it was solely my fault. He seemed stunned that i would accept that responsibility, and was even more amazed when that job was the best one of the entire year. And all i did was give everybody their own prints, made sure we had everything we needed to make it easy as possible, had coffee for the crew every am, cookout every Friday, and studied the prints to find all the engineering ef ups before we got to them so they wouldn't slow us down. The crew armed with the tools needed to do the job beat over 90 other guys on different crews, job underbid but ahead of schedule and under budget with tons of extras and a delighted customer. I didn't do it, i couldn't if i tried. They did, and did so simply because i got out of their way.
 
Pricing your own work after a days work can be a double edged sword.
You are often tired, a bit short tempered and can be a bit brusque with the client, if you price on the spot (as I often do) you go too high cos you dont give a fook.

All of those things can also make it a great thing to do.
 
Mick! said:
Pricing your own work after a days work can be a double edged sword.
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I also don't like to give bids to neighbors while on a job. It's just a mindset thing with me; I have tree work mode and estimate mode. I schedule bids for one day a week and we do tree work four days a week. Never work on weekends.
 
Tree09 said:
By giving people the tools and info they need to do the job and then letting them do it, they will most often amaze you with their capabilities. Honestly unless they are truly slugs you will have far better luck getting out of their way... if the crew wasn't performing it was solely my fault.
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Superb. And fwiw, straight out of Extreme Ownership mindset
 
gf beranek said:
A good friend, John Traverso, confessed to me once, "Jer, my estimators make more money (gross annual) than my top climbers, and I have a problem with that, really, but have yet to come up with a satisfactory solution."

The bidders must make the company. Smooth talker over sweat and daring. Kind of like politics.
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This is what pushed me into more of a sales capacity. What I think is being missed is that the sales/estimators have more risk than the top climbers. At the end of the day, talent and risk get higher compensation. The climber has a steady gig with their talents and position. Everyday secure employment. Not so for one in a sales/estimator postion. They are the first to go in a financial downturn or if they miss a few estimates. That risk demands higher pay.

I loved those times in tree work where as a highly skilled climber, I could make a high risk cut that very few could make and yield big money but saving mass amounts of crew and climber time. I found opportunities like that at times in Germany, but even then, not often enough. Plus I wasn't doing much of the estimations there so a few times of pulling off tricks and that becomes the norm expectation of the estimator.

In sales, you are only as good as your last month/week. Sales Truth.jpg
 
PCTREE said:
Since covid hit my wife finds out if they have Big trees that need to come down, if they do she gets a description of where the tree is located on the property and has them mark it for identification. I stop by at my convenience and take a look and then call them back with a price. Amazing how much time and stress is saved by not making appointments . If the customer doesn't want to mark the tree we literally tell them to call some one else!
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Paul, if they want to do it, do you give them anything in writing?
 
PCTREE said:
Since covid hit my wife finds out if they have Big trees that need to come down, if they do she gets a description of where the tree is located on the property and has them mark it for identification. I stop by at my convenience and take a look and then call them back with a price. Amazing how much time and stress is saved by not making appointments . If the customer doesn't want to mark the tree we literally tell them to call some one else!
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I had to come back to this one cos I love it.
Covid has supplied Paul with the perfect excuse to not even meet the clients.
It’s like he’s saying ‘don’t talk to me, don’t approach me, we do everything on my terms and if you don’t like it bog off’

That is elite level, and I doff my cap to you.🎩chapeau! As they say here.
 
cory said:
Paul, if they want to do it, do you give them anything in writing?
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Cory I typically try to just work with verbal agreements but if the customer wants a written proposal we will furbish one

Mick I don't think this is some kind of elitism merely me trying to find a way to stay sane. I really have a problem with being able to detach myself from the business and when we are swamped busy it has a detrimental effect on my sanity. Not selling the business after being assured it was a done deal was very hard on me mentally. I don't know what has changed since then but I have reached a state where I don't stress too much about it now. Still making great money but just don't give a shit anymore. When shit gets broke I tell the Mrs. to call a repair man and pay to fix it instead of fuming over it for weeks. I am actively trying to not push so much and try to enjoy life a bit. Ever since I was a kid I have always pushed 100% to be the best I could be, at this stage of life that doesn't serve me
 
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