Picco 3/8LP round chisel cutter chain

[Cut4fun]

I can't figure out why they call it chisel?
It has no scuare corner, has it?

The new stihl PS chain has square corner round filed chisel.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/200T/chiselchainLP001.jpg

 

[Ax-Man]

Inbred, I hear what you are saying and I won't argue with your statement that chisel cuts faster and smoother than the semi chisel and round ground chain. I used to run RS full chisel on all my saws except the climbing saws. When I did all the saw sharpening and most of the cutting it made sense for me to run chisel. As time went by I shied away from the RS because of the safety factor when I had more people working with me. I watched an over aggresive 028 almost fly out of a guys hand from a wicked kickback. Thankfully the saw had a chain brake. If someone had been in that saws path it would have gone right through a leg or a persons chest. Another factor was the sharpening factor . I can sharpen chisel but it was hard to teach someone. The saws that deal with the bottom end of a tree cut nice and fast with RS but as we all know once that working corner gets dull from dirt and tramp metal or a dead pice of wood like a dead Elm you are putting an extra work load on felling and bucking saw. I gradually went back to the regular RM over the years.

No it doesn't take much to sharpen saw chain but I don't get a thrill out of it either. I got cocky awhile back and tried something a little different with an RM chain. I filed it the regular way till I was satified with the look of the cutter. On the last stoke I tilted the file in line with the working corner and with an authorative push on the file gave the tooth a look similar to what a chisel cutter should look like. I was very pleased with the way it cut in a test cut. Very nice looking chips. Out on the job was a little disappointing but cutting off and trying to level a large dirty Willow stump that someone else failed to do wasn't exactly a good field test. The saw didn't exactly cut straight either but I before had trouble with this bar and chain since the day one because it it came on a part saw I bought. I can make my own stuff perform really good but everytime I get used stuff from some unknown source I have trouble with getting the chain really sharp or the saw to cut straight. I don't know what it is about it either.

I have been meaning to start a little milling thread because I bought a chainsaw mill attachment but I don't how interested you guys would be in that. There is a definate learning curve to this milling. I will say that much.

Since we are talking semi verses square chisel chain in how it performs against hitting tramp metal. I thought I would throw this in as it seems to fit.

For my first milling I used my 650. As we all know milling is hard on a saw and requires a very sharp chain. I spent the better part of an hour sharpening the chain on this 650. I got down to the nitty gritty and used a protrator to check the top plate angle and finally tried a trick Magnus had mentioned by putting a flat pice of metal over the cutters on the level part of the bar and using a automotive feeler gauge with the .025 blade to check the clearance for the depth gauges. This is way more accurate than the common depth gauge tools you can buy. I found some of those tools can be a little off playing around in the shop.

Finally after getting the chain sharp we are ready for the first cut which is to cut the milling log to length. Wouldn you know it I hit a nail broadside:roll::roll:. I didn't know I had hit the thing till I rolled the two pieces apart. The saw still wanted to cut so I prepared for the first milling cut with the slabbing rails. The saw was still cutting very good on this American Elm log. Everything was fine till I got to the last foot of the log. Another nail. Finished the cut but this nail did the saw in.

If I had chisel on this saw instead of semi chisel it would have torn the chisel up really bad. Almost to the point of throwing the chain out or some very serious filing to get it back right. I resharpened the RM chain on the back of the truck and went on to produce two nice slabs for my little bench project. That same saw with no resharpening has cut down and bucked a couple of very large trees this past week and is still sharp and cutting smooth. My guys were impressed with how fast and smooth it was cutting. Magnus's little tip is what made the difference. I think. I would not have gotten that kind of performance out of a chisel chain

Ripping chain is the best for milling but this was a first time experiment and I didn't want to file down a chain that is going to be used in our tree service just for this. I have another saw a 076 lined up for this milling but it is on the repair list for the moment.

Here is a pic of the nail I hit broadside. Nice :roll::roll: Typical chain destroyer tree service log.

 

[Al Smith]

That little trick of a straight edge with a feeler gauge is one method used on race chain .

Damned yard trees often contain metal,usually nails .However every so often you find a danged woods tree too .A couple years back my sawyer hit nails about 15 20 feet up from most likely an old deer stand . That cost old Al a 35 dollar bandsaw blade .

 

[Cut4fun]

I was cutting up a black oak for my dad on top of the hill in 07 and hit all kinds of buried barb wire. Never seen a fence up there anywhere, but must have been a few moons ago.

Then cutting a hand hewd beam I hit a piece of metal rod 1" round in the center of the beam. Now how that got there, hmmm.

 

[Ax-Man]

That little trick of a straight edge with a feeler gauge is one method used on race chain .

That is one slick trick I wish I had thought of or heard of years ago instead of using those gauges that come with a new Stihl saw. I just finished getting our 361 ready for tommorow's big oak job. I sharpened the chain and used the feeler gauge trick on the depth gauges and got the same results as I did with the 650. Nice smooth cut with some above average agressiveness to it. I love it and is not like when you lower a depth gauge too much on purpose or by accedent and get a choppy grabby type cut. The feeler gauge is kind of a fine tuning for chain sharpening. You can tell which depth gauge is a little high or which one is a little low and doesn't need to be filed with the feeler gauge. Much better than trying to eyeball using the standard tools. Takes a little longer but is worth the time.

 

[simplypete]

I wonder why we don't have a raker gauge that is worth a hoot. Seems like when ever I use a guide I get spotty results. Seems almost like a waste of time.

 

[SkwerI]

I've used a guide exactly once in my life. I freehand the rakers by counting the file strokes and watching that I'm taking about the same amount off each one. No complaints or problems with that method in many years.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I think that when you talk about chisel chain, you have to specify round filed cc, or else it gets confusing. Mental slowpokes like me.

I grind down the safety ramps on the grinder, but it still makes for a heavier chain since you still have the material below the side plates.

 

[Jed]

Impressive post Larry: Thanks for the time and the input. I had had two pints of Miller Low Life that night, and was feeling a bit surly. I've since sobered up a bit, and realize that the guy at our shop whom I have the main contention with is actually a pretty descent guy in his own way who has tons and tons more experience than I have. He's got this chunk of Maple (yeah, he actually kept it) that has a huge nail which he sliced through longitudinally (the long way!) with semi, that he's just so proud of. He claims that the saw continued to cut fairly well after, and I have no adequate reason to disbelieve him. I now realize that the reason that that chain pisses me off so much is really quite irrational--but it still, for whatever prejudiced reason, does. Chalk it up to wanna-be commercial faller syndrome.

John, the semi-chisel proponent/old-lady is always saying things like, "We're residential tree-guys, not timber cutters." :what: :roll:

Maybe, in addition to sobering up, I need to grow up, and just accept my lot in life.

Aaaaaawwwhhhh........ FORGET THAT! I'm gonna swing tomorrow's tree leaning toward the house with a soft-dutchman!

 

[Al Smith]

FWIW I have 12-15 chains in the garage that hit iron that Tom gave me .Most are Stihl,some semi ,some chisel . The semi took just about as hard of a hit as did the chisel .

It's going to take using the Dremel to revive them which I just haven't taken the time to do .It's not worth his time to fool with them .Down time on the job equates to money .To get one ground at the saw shop is 7 bucks a hit .

 

[Cut4fun]

Thats what I bought the stihl usg grinder for. Guys were bringing me totally rocked out chains and I got tired of trying to fix by hand. So now I can get everything evened back up in a few passes and touch up by hand if needed.

 

[Al Smith]

I have seriously given a grinder some thought for exactly that reason .

Ha I'll con old Tom into buying one and leaving it here .I'll be the one operating it any way .

 

[Cut4fun]

Bring chains, beer and 200T to test that PS chain on.

I'm getting ready to try local stihl dealer, what dl count you need? 050 gage?

 

[Al Smith]

It's 50 thou .Whatever driver count a 14" Stihl bar is .I've got a little 12" .043 bar on the super bee but I think using Stihl chain in .050 it cuts about as fast as the Carlton on the skinny bar .

I'll take a peek later on at the stocker 200T which has a 14" to get the count .

The 12" skinny was just something I hung on it when we were playing racers .It's kind of a pain in the butt for actual trimming duties . Toms' boys had that 12" bent like a horse shoe .Took me about an hour to get it straight again .

 

[Cut4fun]

I only went to the new JD stihl dealer closest to me. I dont think I will be going there much and they didnt even have PMC let alone PS3 Al.

DANG saws prices are really crazy imo to me. MS460 was 979 and 989 depending on bar size.

So back to the 3rd dealer I like and use hour round trip, because I cant stand dealer number 2 half the distance and number 4 is 1.5 round trip if I had to.

 

[Al Smith]

I know what you mean .I have one about 2 miles away I'll never walk in his shop again . I drive about 15 miles to another one .

 

[SkwerI]

Al, the link count for that Stihl 14" bar is 50. The chain I sent you with it was 63pm-50. It's marked on the bar.

 

[flushcut]

A grinder with ABN wheels are the way to go IMO.

 

[Al Smith]

50 it is .I checked it but then went to help Tom hook up some trailer lighting and just got back home .

 

[Al Smith]

The only real reason I would care to have a grinder is for rocked chains . It's not that I rock them no more than I use a saw but Toms' bunch seems to .He runs mainly Stihl and that stuff while tough is also tough to unrock with a file .

I know that the cost of chains is just an expense if you operate a tree service but it seems a shame to pitch a chain with 3/4 life left in it .

 

[Cut4fun]

I found 63PM for .21 a drive link plus shipping.

 

[flushcut]

The only real reason I would care to have a grinder is for rocked chains . It's not that I rock them no more than I use a saw but Toms' bunch seems to .He runs mainly Stihl and that stuff while tough is also tough to unrock with a file .

I know that the cost of chains is just an expense if you operate a tree service but it seems a shame to pitch a chain with 3/4 life left in it .

I only use my grinder for rocked chains and the time savings and less strain on the hands is so worth it for me.

 

[Al Smith]

It only takes about 5 minutes or so to file a 20" loop so at least for me a grinder wouldn't be beneficial for normal chain maintainance . A good wooden handle with some size to it helps the poor old fingers .Those little plastic handles are about worthless as teats on a boar .

 

[Cut4fun]

Had a guy show me he used a golf ball on the end for a handle. Just drill you a little hole and it was very comfortable to use.

I reckon you could put one on both ends.

 

[flushcut]

It only takes about 5 minutes or so to file a 20" loop so at least for me a grinder wouldn't be beneficial for normal chain maintainance . A good wooden handle with some size to it helps the poor old fingers .Those little plastic handles are about worthless as teats on a boar .

I agree I only use the grinder for the rocked chains and file 95% of the time.

Had a guy show me he used a golf ball on the end for a handle. Just drill you a little hole and it was very comfortable to use.

I reckon you could put one on both ends.

I might have to try that.