Petzl tackles LEAD(Pb) Throw Ball Issue

IS recycling enough?

  • YES

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • NO

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • ITS A START

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • WHAT EVER

    Votes: 10 47.6%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
RopeArmour

RopeArmour

TreeHouser
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
1,119
Location
Cambridge, Ontario Canada
I am happy to see that they are concerned with Lead being released into the environment. And I congratulate them for their effort.

Here is the Petzl recycling program.
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/recycling-jet-throw-bag-petzl

On the other hand.

What about your personal safe handling of a Lead weighted bag? The internal balloon wears, ruptures and degrades without a visual sign and the Lead is then pulverized and dusts up or oozes from the bag. It is just a balloon after all.

Is a recycling program enough?
What is your take on this?
 
Honestly, I don't think about it much. I wash my hands after I go shooting and don't let my kid play with throwbags. ;)

My parents lived in houses with lead paint and lead window weights.. they also handled mercury when they were kids in school. Thankfully they're both still here so I'm not fanatical about what the EPA tells me.

I've taken old bags up to my BOH with other hazardous stuff but it's more of a because I'm already going that way type of thing.

I think petzl's thing is going to work at boosting their green image more than it's going to help the environment. Smart move on their part.
 
Kind of like Sterling and the rope recycling program... To be honest I never worry about lead in throwbags, I busted one once and didnt even think to clean it up after it rained lead all over the house and yard.
 
If someone made a throwbag that cost $40 but had bismuth in it, I'd buy it! This Nick doesn't wanna make lead rain for all the little birdies!

:)

I voted, "it's a start" for the recycling program. For one thing- no one is going to retire their bag until it actually BREAKS. At that point, like Nick B said, no one is going to pick it all up.

The other thing- lets say I, a MEGA tree hugger, would be the type of person willing to retire a throwbag early- I sure as hell aint going to spend $5 of my own money to ship it to someone else so that they can have a seemingly eco-friendly program to tout. Is petzl covering the shipping or sending us back a free throwbag in exchange?

Finally, and this is from the Petzl program about who can partake in the program...

At this point, it involves most European countries: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Great-Britain, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Saint Marin, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.


Remember how fussy stig got when someone (Carl maybe?) said something was like the F-150...a reference best suited for those from the USA. I am just as perturbed that the program isn't available outside of Europe. grrrr!!!

So great idea, but I don't think it has any value other than making some people feel warm and fuzzy inside...until they ACTUALLY think about it, then the warm fuzz goes away.

love
nick
 
I feed it to the pidgeons........







































:P Just kidding... The dump has a box I can put it in next to a box those wonderful eco friendly florescnt light bulbs that contain mercury go in.
 
The plain bags from WesSpur don't have a balloon in them. They are my favorite as far as shape/handling goes, but whoever makes them acts like they're afraid they're gonna use too much fabric. I had one break on the 4th throw. Granted it hit on pavement, but the 4th throw??? You could see where it was stitched, there was about a thread-width of fabric beyond the stitching. I mean, you have to cut the little pattern out to sew it up....what's it gonna hurt stitching a whopping 1/4" back from the edge....and then adding another row of stitching? My daughter's gong to make me some if I can find suitable fabric. I've got a dozen salvaged bags to use the shot out of.

I had one of their "Unbreakable" bags burst a few weeks ago. About 6 months of use. Tungsten pellets in them I believe.

I guess I'm more concerned with a durable bag than what's inside it. I'd be willing to bet that if a bag broke in a yard, the pellets would be walked into the ground before they were eaten. I have chickens, and I've watched them cull stuff. They don't gobble up everything in sight. I can see a vulture getting lead poisoning from ingesting lead, but I don't figure that happens nearly as much as the buzzard-huggers would have us believe. I know of people who got shot and the bullet was left in them because of location. They didn't die from lead poisoning.
 
Lead in the environment, look no further than the Salmon sport fishing industry where when trolling and the fish hits your set-up, it releases the lead ball weight. There has to be millions out there on the ocean floor along the north west coast. Dropped a few myself. I haven't heard of any pending regulations.
 
Divers use lead as ballast. Used to be lead bricks but more and more is bags filled with shot. They are mesh and ooze lead into the lakes, rivers, ocean.

Bullets and shot gun lead fly into the environment at high velocity all the time too.

Throw weights are barely even on the radar compared to those two activities.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
NorthWoodsDiver said:
Divers use lead as ballast. Used to be lead bricks but more and more is bags filled with shot. They are mesh and ooze lead into the lakes, rivers, ocean.

Bullets and shot gun lead fly into the environment at high velocity all the time too.

Throw weights are barely even on the radar compared to those two activities.
Click to expand...

You will be surprised how much LEAD is unaccounted for, due to throw weights. Rough estimate is 60 Tons a year.
Is it being recycled, is scattered, where is it?
I ahve clients hire me to work on properties under their care. Charitable reserves, Foundations, Conservation lands etc and give me the work based on what I have done and committed to make this world better. I sell the fact that I am enviro-friendly and do not use Leaded weights. I live right beside the largest River system in Ontario so there is no way I will contribute to LEAD poisoning of Golden Eagles, Osprey etc in my neighbourhood.

My clients know and trust that my practices are best practices and are smart enough to understand that industry standards are generally years behind technology and research.
End of rant. I'll get my head back in the fox hole now!
 
60 tons? Thats a lot.

60 tons = 120,000 lbs x 16 oz/lb = 1,920,000 oz's of lead. = 160,000 average 12oz throwballs

I wonder how many throwballs Sherrill sells per year?

If 160k throwballs are sold each year @ an average of say $10 that means that means the throwball industry is a $1.6million dollar segment. Its safe to say that together WesSpur, Sherrill, and Treestuff likely account for 90% or more of all arborist supplies sold, I wonder if they gross $1.4 million a year on throwballs.

Crazy.
 
I wonder how many tons were sent out in the air we breathe, back when gasoline was leaded.

I probably wouldn't really want to know.
 
The simplest way to stop busting bags and losing lead is to stop missing your shots! :P

Dave

100_4816.jpg
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
DMc said:
The simplest way to stop busting bags and losing lead is to stop missing your shots! :P

Dave

100_4816.jpg
Click to expand...

If it where only that easy!
Dirty trees, understorey, line trailing, isolating tips, retreiving hang ups and jams etc are the more common problem.

An excellent launch system only deals with 1/2 the problem. Still like to give the APTA a try.
 
bonner1040 said:
YEAH!!!! Have you been using it? Are you getting surgically accurate :) ?
Click to expand...

Yes and yes. The barrel concept has been well proven throughout history as an improvement over something hand thrown or launched from a sling-shot.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
bonner1040 said:
60 tons? Thats a lot.

60 tons = 120,000 lbs x 16 oz/lb = 1,920,000 oz's of lead. = 160,000 average 12oz throwballs

I wonder how many throwballs Sherrill sells per year?

If 160k throwballs are sold each year @ an average of say $10 that means that means the throwball industry is a $1.6million dollar segment. Its safe to say that together WesSpur, Sherrill, and Treestuff likely account for 90% or more of all arborist supplies sold, I wonder if they gross $1.4 million a year on throwballs.

Crazy.
Click to expand...

Nice math and those numbers would be world wide and do not include other throw bag markets like industrial rope access, SnR, etc.
I had a large retailer in Ontario tell it to my face that they would not sell RopeArmor because it would encroach on their throw bag sales. Basically RopeArmor is too good a product and they would loose profit it they sold them.
Pretty cowardly and selfish considering the end user/arborists who would profit from its use are left with a defiecient throw ball the contributes negatively to world/environment.
I ahve to thank Companies like Freeworker in Germany, TreeStuff in USA and Atreas in Australia who have the acumen to
sell and market something that challenges the status quo so their clients can benefit and profit from the RopeArmor advantages. RopeArmor puts and keeps dollars in Arborists pockets especialy if you are having to replace throw balls every year or you are throw bag hangs ups consistently.

Innovation has its challenges.

This tree rebel will persist. Defiantly independent!:)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?16297-All-RopeKnight-All-The-Time/page11

More info above. It is radiused to a rounded end similar to a a pencil rubber end on one end(Stainless steel weighted end) and the other end is radiused to a bullet shape end that finishes at 3mm(to accomadate throw line)
and at its widest is 1.25" .
Sorry to complicate the answer but OD is radiused/tapering to accomodate the other tools/RopeShield etc.

So is that close enough to fire out the APTA?
Man, I so badly want to see that sucka fly from the APTA


Betcha ya it goes like a .:tomcat:
 
bonner1040 said:
60 tons?

...its safe to say that together WesSpur, Sherrill, and Treestuff likely account for 90% or more of all arborist supplies sold...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that is true. I know it seems that way to us, but remember there are a lot of companies out there that don't get online and have never heard of Sherrill and buy their stuff from their local supplier.

I'm from Wisconsin. I've worked for some of those guys!

But I agree. 60 tons EVER makes more sense.

That said, I would rather do something right than to do something that may or may not be wrong or a big deal.

love
nick




love
nick
 
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