flushcut
TreeHouser
For me bars are considered a consumable tool use it, burn it up, and replace tho thru out it's life I do reclose the rails, file off burs, and replace nose sprockets as needed. IMO wore out is wore out and gets tossed.
Narrowing bar groove
- Thread starter Nutball
- Start date
- Replies 58
- Views 14K
Magnus
TreeHouser
No. If all is correct it chain will ride on the two sprockets with enough tension to stay straight between the rails.
Tiestraps sit on the rail at all times.
When chain is worn in rivet and drive link hole it will bend sideway's at load is put on the tooth. It will be same if a rim is worn out.
Working trees that are small enough that the 28" bar only comes out twice a year , probably.
Same thing with my 60" bar.
That thing'll last my life and I most likely won't even wear the paint off of it.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
Listen Mamma Fi, you bad boys !
But still
But still
Magnus, do you understand physics? Gravity? There is no way you're going to get enough tension on that chain that it won't ride on the downhill side when the saw is in felling position. If you do, the chain AIN'T going to turn. I know for a fact that the chain wears the downhill side, widening the groove. I have seen worn bars/chains with the chain visibly canted.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I agree with you Treesmith, excepted on one point : in felling position, the chain rides on the down side of the groove only when she isn't buried in the wood.
In the wood and if we don't keep holding the full weight of the chainsaw, the chain lays on the wood on it's own down side, supporting the bar and the chainsaw's weight on its up side. Actually, the chain tends to tilt ( wood pushes the cutters up and the bar pushes the drive links down), wearing the groove on the upside at its edge and on the down side at its bottom.
It isn't easy to describe, it would be better with a drawing.
In the wood and if we don't keep holding the full weight of the chainsaw, the chain lays on the wood on it's own down side, supporting the bar and the chainsaw's weight on its up side. Actually, the chain tends to tilt ( wood pushes the cutters up and the bar pushes the drive links down), wearing the groove on the upside at its edge and on the down side at its bottom.
It isn't easy to describe, it would be better with a drawing.
Nutball
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
One more quick question, where are the carbonfiber bars? A sugihara style carbon core steel rail bar could be superlight, and I know they could be affordable with china making the carbon cores if the retailer wasn't super greedy. The carbon could be laminated in a thin layer of metal or something to avoid splintering from wear. But then there are a lot of things that could make chainsaws better that they don't do yet, so maybe they are working on it.
Magnus
TreeHouser
I not only understand fysic's, I also understand mechanic's.. I also understand weights that is spun on two points very fast have other problems than gravity.
It is not just chain tension. You would know this if you ran long bars. When chain is pulled by engine there is a lot more load created then you can get from a bar tensioner.
You will not get more or less wear on the insides due to gravity if all is as it should be.
Why it wears wrong is the key...
And it has nothing to do with length of chain and bar.
Magnus
TreeHouser
Bar tip is leaning down a bit before you push throttle.
Once you do that it rises like a spring and if chain rails and tension is right you have no issues.
I service several long bars for mills and stack cutters.
Once you do that it rises like a spring and if chain rails and tension is right you have no issues.
I service several long bars for mills and stack cutters.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I have a 28" stihl bar that's cutting great if I'm verticle, like crap if I'm horizontal. New chain and no visible bow. It's an old bar. What should I look for in " play" if I grab the chain and rotate it sideways. I'm about to pitch it and thought of this thread
Nutball
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #37
I've been annoyed with bars that have the tip cut crooked. My dad's 28" will cut straight on small stuff but when cutting 20" or more diameter the tip sometimes starts curving, then the bar gets kind of pinched when I move the saw down. I think it is a pretty new bar, or was when this happened. I've always thought maybe an extra wide bar like some of the canon bars might cut straighter
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I'll give it a shot. Or grab one of the others I've got around. Or replace it and remember to mark it as scrap. It might not even be one of my bars. I've bought a few trashed saws for parts over the years.
Burnham
Woods walker
Thinking that might apply to our poster here...we might just need to hammer hard.
Burnham
Woods walker
Yep. Not forgotten, not forgiven. Never will.
Burnham
Woods walker
Yup, I know it breaks your heart Willard. Mine, too.
Burnham
Woods walker
As opposed to the last time you decided I needed to be insulted for no reason, when your excuse was that you'd been cooped up in the house too long in deep winter...
Lame.
Lame.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Thinking that might apply to our poster here...we might just need to hammer hard.
Yeah, I hooked them up with a GREAT source that offers prices hard to beat, because of their perceived position. Then to hear them ask about carbon fiber bars, after I get a nasty phone call from the person I suggested. I'm out!
As for the other party, I've got a lot bigger, and more meaningful things in my life that I need to deal with, and I'm sure they cannot comprehend that thought, so again, I'm out!
Magnus
TreeHouser
Rails need to be dressed and kept straight especially if new chain is put on.
Even if there is wider groove than need the load is on the tie straps and rails. If theu match it sits well, if they are rounded it wobbles.
Unless rails are worn down so driver hit bottom.
So what could cause a chains tie straps to be worn wrong? Then chain shape the rail wrong and off you go to the land of costs and replacements.
It is three parts that wear together, and affect each other.
Even if there is wider groove than need the load is on the tie straps and rails. If theu match it sits well, if they are rounded it wobbles.
Unless rails are worn down so driver hit bottom.
So what could cause a chains tie straps to be worn wrong? Then chain shape the rail wrong and off you go to the land of costs and replacements.
It is three parts that wear together, and affect each other.
Grendel
TreeHouser
Dressed meaning filed parallel? Should this be done every time you change chains? I'm very interested as I'd like to keep these new bars in good shape for a good long time.
Thank you!
Cheers
Thank you!
Cheers
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
If all is in order, the theory says so, but it will more likely just jam sooner if there's something wrong.
Treebilly, to see if the groove is too much worn (and /or the chain for that matter), put a rule vertically against the bar (upright, normal position), going by one cutter's edge on both up and down sides.
It must live a free gap along the bar, not touching the bar at all. So, only the cutters touch the wood when the chainsaw lays flat in felling mode.
If the rule sits on the side's bar, there's too much play and the chain is tilted too much to the side. When the chainsaw lays in the wood in felling mode, the bar is pushed down by the weigh and drags on the wood in the cut. But the chain still has some play sideway up and it can't be maintained in position to nicely clean the low side of the cut. Each time the cutters pass, they leave a little bit of fibers which push the chain up, like a half dulled chain.
You can still cut almost straight if the chain is really sharp (alaping a stump sucks), the rails even, the fibers perpendicular to the cut and homogeneous, and if you hold completely the saw, levitating in the cut - short bar only.
Bucking could be still doable without too much hassle because you take the chainsaw's weigh out of the equation.
Actually, the only thing you think at, is throwing away this shit.
Nutball
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
I was just curious about the carbon fiber bars, I couldn't afford one anyway, but I thought someone has had to have made something lighter when you get into long bars. And I have a feeling it could be cheaper to make such a bar than most would think if you used pultruded then milled CF for the core. They might still run slightly higher than a total bar for the extra work involved, but probably not as much as a canon bar. I can dream beyond my budget can't I?
Grendel
TreeHouser
We have, but it seems like best practice to lightly dress the bar after every chain. So the new straps have a fresh surface to mate with. Almost like honing the rails, as opposed to filing them. Anyways just thinking out loud, I've got the little blue Pferd bar dresser tool.
Cheers
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
That's what I was taught.
Grendel
TreeHouser
makes sense
