Thanks for all the tips, pics, advice etc. on SRT. Keep 'em coming! I've got another question for ya'll. I've considered getting some fiddle blocks for some time now, but the tree pulling kit from Sherrill seems like it might have some advantages. You can use the same line from the tree to pull with in some instances, or, if more length/distance is needed, use as long a rope as you will. Which is better in your opinion...fiddle or tree puller????? Right now I use a block/tackle set with 3/8" 3-strand (like the power companies use to tension their cable) for light pulls and one of those giant red come-a-longs from Bailey's for the big jobs. Both have their place, but the small one is very limited as far as power is concerned. It takes care of tall whippy pines that just need a little encouragement...or standing stubs after topping/limbing. I'm leaning toward the tree pulling kit (after watching the clip on Youtube), but have read several posts of others with fiddle blocks and no posts of folks with the tree puller. Any idees?
Mechanical advantage?
- Thread starter treesmith
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woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I have the red two ton puller from Baileys. It cost a bit to get it shipped here, but it comes in very handy at times. I like how you can double it back on itself for more pull. All in all though, if I was doing a lot of pulling, and didn't mind using cable all the time, I'd get an endless line puller, the kind where the cable passes through the entire device. Those are very easy to use, but kind of heavy. I've used them, and I don't think you can beat 'em for pulling cable.
Current set-up pic:
Current set-up pic:
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4
That's the same type come-a-long I use. It's just too heavy and slow for some jobs where a rope/block set would be faster and offer longer pulls. When double-lining, those big come-a-longs can't be beat for power, though!
B
Blinky
Guest
I use a fiddle block.
Burnham
Woods walker
I like my Warn 12000 pounder on the truck. I know there are plenty of times when you can't put the truck where you need the pull, but with some inventive rigging for re-directs, it's surprising how often I can put it in play. Run most or all of the redirects with static rope, then to the winch cable.
F
Frans
Guest
http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/general_equipment/black_rat_winch.htm
Winches scare me. Alot of pull = alot of forces on the rigging/tree etc. Often with a winch it is difficult to determine just how much forces are being exerted
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Burnham
Woods walker
Fair enough, Frans. It takes experience and the full attention of the operator.
Chainsaws scare a lot of people, too.
B
Bounce
Guest
Like Stumper, I set up my MA system on the spot according to the needs of the situation. 9 times out of 10 a simple z-rig is enough to pull a leaning trunk over. But I do also own a fiddle block - the progress capture feature on that makes it sweet for tensioning my speedline.
I'm with Frans, there.
Tirfor winch is the way to go. Endless wire, goes nice and slow and if you overdo it, the little replacable pin in the handle breaks and the winch seizes up on the cable.
Since the original Tirfor patent ran out, there are a lot of cheaper copies on the market, at least over here.
I have a 5 ton Tirfor for the big stuff and a little handy 1 ton Habecker ( tirfor copy) for those times, when you just pull on a tree to be on the safe side.
That Black Rat is a Tirfor copy, it even has the same color handles.
Tirfor winch is the way to go. Endless wire, goes nice and slow and if you overdo it, the little replacable pin in the handle breaks and the winch seizes up on the cable.
Since the original Tirfor patent ran out, there are a lot of cheaper copies on the market, at least over here.
I have a 5 ton Tirfor for the big stuff and a little handy 1 ton Habecker ( tirfor copy) for those times, when you just pull on a tree to be on the safe side.
That Black Rat is a Tirfor copy, it even has the same color handles.
Burnham
Woods walker
It does look useful.
W
Wagnaw
Guest
Mechanical advantage... 
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woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Seems like you might be using the wrong brand of endless puller there, Stig. Have used both German and Japanese brands with heavy load, some ancient ones too, and never any breakage.
Jay, Stig is talking about a safety feature designed into the puller to preclude over tensioning. The winch doesn't break nor releas ethe load but the safety pin breaks so that the operator doesn't accidently exceed the ratings on the rigging components.
W
Wagnaw
Guest
If my dad's chain puller had been built with one of those safety features, he'd still have a whole knee cap.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
T
The Branch Doctor
Guest
I made a 5:1 setup that is kinda a mix of both the tree pulling kit and a fiddle block. I set it up on 120' of 1/2" rigging line and keep it in a milk crate all set up and ready to go when needed.
Here's the components I use:
120' rigging line
2 petzl 2" dual-sheave S.steel pully's
petzl pro traxion
5/8" petzl macrocender rope grab
If I need to pull something I can pull it out of the crate, attach one end of it midline to any rope, and the other end attaches to my port-a-wrap.
Here's the components I use:
120' rigging line
2 petzl 2" dual-sheave S.steel pully's
petzl pro traxion
5/8" petzl macrocender rope grab
If I need to pull something I can pull it out of the crate, attach one end of it midline to any rope, and the other end attaches to my port-a-wrap.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Those Tirfor winches are really gentle on the cable.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
When using overwhelming forces of truck, wench, come-a-long etc.; it is good to think of a friendly giant metering just so much force to help. Gentle, yet purposefull is the way to go IMLHO.
Everythang is like Goldilocks; you can have too little, too much or just right!
wenches and come-a-longs etc. gain speed , but loose power as pool fills. Come-a-long, Maasdam, you have to change direction (wasted inertia, speed with reset between each pull). i favour, pulley, truck, capstan or chain hoist for not losing power, nor change direction during pull. i wouldn't rule out pulling so far with truck to jsut tension 1 line, then finishing pull with other device (pulley rig etc.). Any kind of hinging pull, is best backedup with simple wedge, to aid, but then also as safety backstop in case of pull failure.
In good wood, i like to pull towards the gunned face, and let the hinge handle imbalances/ side leans; taking the pull force and leveraging it higher thru the hinge machine to then help steer. If you pull with line to left to fight a right sidelean, you are just using your force over the CG leverages; but if you pull straight, that same force has to then leverage thru the hinge. i'd only pull directly in wood that couldn't give the desired leveraging multiplier (was weak, deteoriated, inelastic etc.). So, pulling directly to offset sidelean, skips the hinge multiplier of your effort!
Everythang is like Goldilocks; you can have too little, too much or just right!
wenches and come-a-longs etc. gain speed , but loose power as pool fills. Come-a-long, Maasdam, you have to change direction (wasted inertia, speed with reset between each pull). i favour, pulley, truck, capstan or chain hoist for not losing power, nor change direction during pull. i wouldn't rule out pulling so far with truck to jsut tension 1 line, then finishing pull with other device (pulley rig etc.). Any kind of hinging pull, is best backedup with simple wedge, to aid, but then also as safety backstop in case of pull failure.
In good wood, i like to pull towards the gunned face, and let the hinge handle imbalances/ side leans; taking the pull force and leveraging it higher thru the hinge machine to then help steer. If you pull with line to left to fight a right sidelean, you are just using your force over the CG leverages; but if you pull straight, that same force has to then leverage thru the hinge. i'd only pull directly in wood that couldn't give the desired leveraging multiplier (was weak, deteoriated, inelastic etc.). So, pulling directly to offset sidelean, skips the hinge multiplier of your effort!
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I prefer the overwhelming force of a bulldozer myself and a big cable .
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #22
The reason I originally started this thread is that though I like the looks of the fiddle blocks, everyone stocks them with a 50' rope, which limits them to 12-13 feet of pull (if you allow the end to nearly get back throough the block). With the tree pulling kit, you've got two double sheave pulleys, quick-on, quick-off, that can be installed on any length rope you need. I just wondered if there was some advantage to the fiddle blocks that I was missing. The tree pulling kit from Sherrill comes with two prussiks--one to allow installation on the load line, and another to install as a progress capture. One day I might own both, but right now I'm trying to decide on one or the other.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
Fiddle blocks usually have 2 refinemeants that other pulley systems might not have. They usually have bearings instead of bushings; and their forces are more inline, not side by side. Both of these let you get more of the potential of the leveraging.
A cleat, cam or prussik etc. can allow progressive capture/purchase; but also can hold so that you can rest, reset, impact or even bend/leverage the line sideways; also powerful strategies to add to the worx.
Placing 1 system on the end of another will multiply their forces 5:1 x 3:1= 15:1; but insetting the 3:1 (so that it doesn't terminate on anchor itself, but rather pulls on 5:1 at 2 different points can give 21:1. Because where the 3:1 would usually place 2x force on anchor outside of system, it now places that 2x onto a point that will pull 3x (5x -2x); so we add 2x3 to the 15:1 for 21:1!
A cleat, cam or prussik etc. can allow progressive capture/purchase; but also can hold so that you can rest, reset, impact or even bend/leverage the line sideways; also powerful strategies to add to the worx.
Placing 1 system on the end of another will multiply their forces 5:1 x 3:1= 15:1; but insetting the 3:1 (so that it doesn't terminate on anchor itself, but rather pulls on 5:1 at 2 different points can give 21:1. Because where the 3:1 would usually place 2x force on anchor outside of system, it now places that 2x onto a point that will pull 3x (5x -2x); so we add 2x3 to the 15:1 for 21:1!
F
Frans
Guest
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I thought I was the only one wondering that.
