Making a ground anchor where none exists
- Thread starter emr
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murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Don't get me started.. crazy risks is all a matter of perspective... Like Al says it's pure physics... works every time!
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Thats a good idea.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Well now you have to use some smarts about it .You can't make a dead end tie on a Ranger pick with a 2 to 1 redirect and hook onto it with a D8 .Else you wanted to drag a little pick me up -up into a big tree .Explain that one to the insurance man .
emr
Cheesehead Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
All I am saying is that we usually get hired to work in areas where you don't have a lot of room. All of the other companies in town have the big equipment but can't climb, so that's where we make our living. I am sorry but I will not use a vehicle to pull a tree over with. I admit that sometimes it may be safe and the most efficient way to do it, but I usually don't feel comfortable doing it. I do use a long sling to anchor a redirect block like you mentioned that but even that won't work all of the time. I was looking for solutions to a specific problem and I like what I read about the different anchors that you drive in nto the ground. I am definitely got ng to look into those further. Thanks!
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
--and again different situations require different methods .Only the guy in charge can determine that .
You know sometimes you can trip the whole kit and cabootle and sometimes you have to disassemble the damned thing .That's why you guys get the big bucks .
You know sometimes you can trip the whole kit and cabootle and sometimes you have to disassemble the damned thing .That's why you guys get the big bucks .
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
We used this as a redirect to keep the rope off the house. We needed to get a truck on this specific tree, but we have used this same setup to anchor the comealong and pull large trees into empty yards.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
On a side guy or stay if you prefer with that small of an angle of redirect it's not putting much of a load on the anchor .
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
No it wasnt under the a lot of load at all. I just wanted to show the setup as that was the only picture I had. We use it the same way except with a comealong instead of the colored slings.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
You gotta do what you feel comfortable doing... each to his own... more than one way to skin a cat.... you can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself..
The buzz boys went off about me using a skid loader to pull... saying that it would be better to use the machine as an anchor and set up a z rig or fiddle blocks etc.. If I did that my guys would look at me like I was crazy... If a tree has a rope in it, I AM pulling with a machine 98% of the time.. The point I was trying to make at TB, is that when you are using the plunge and back release, it doesn't matter what the source of the pull is.. its gonna take the same amount of force to trip the tree.
And anything that is falling close to valuable property, I feel a lot better about with a thicker hinge, especially side-leaners, which is a problem when pulling by hand, even with the MA..
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Pulling with equipment, truck, mini or whatever is SOP, if someone chooses not to do so just 'because' they're just limiting their own bag of tricks. I roll with the KISS system.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Trucks suit me just fine for pulling. 200 some horse engine, transmission, axle gearing......that's mechanical advantage at its finest.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
You hang enough snatch blocks in line you could probabley pull it over with a garden tractor . Then again you'd pull ten feet to gain a inch and you'd need a mile of rope not to mention a pick up truck full of blocks .
Now again I never claimed to be a PNW Paul Bunyan feller or in fact a treeman .I do it,have done it ,will do it but my methods while safe are not fast at all .Generally I drive wedges and call it a day. Rarely a rope but there are exceptions .
That dead oak take down I did last summer was a pull .The only reason was being fearfull of beating my brains out if the top came loose from breaking over on the fall. It in fact did but I was 150 feet away from it sitting on the old Fergy watching the whole thing snapping pictures which didn't some out so good. Too bad they would have been neat pics .
Now again I never claimed to be a PNW Paul Bunyan feller or in fact a treeman .I do it,have done it ,will do it but my methods while safe are not fast at all .Generally I drive wedges and call it a day. Rarely a rope but there are exceptions .
That dead oak take down I did last summer was a pull .The only reason was being fearfull of beating my brains out if the top came loose from breaking over on the fall. It in fact did but I was 150 feet away from it sitting on the old Fergy watching the whole thing snapping pictures which didn't some out so good. Too bad they would have been neat pics .
emr
Cheesehead Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
I don't know how you all do tree work but in the areas that I do work you are not usually able to get a tree on the ground only by pulling with a truck or skid loader. In the day to day work that I do, I just don't see a use for it. I don't think I am limiting myself by saying that. I guess I would pull a tree over like that if it made sense but I just think there are better ways for me. To each their own. With the jobs that I bid on and sell, you could not fell trees like that and have a successful company. There is either not enough room to do it or the customers won't put up with that kind of damage to their turf. I dont think we could use a even mini on 90% of our jobs, let alone a skid steer or larger.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Due to rocky and steep terrain we are often in the same boat here Eric. Hard pressed to get a vehicle or piece of equipment even near the dang tree. Why we are often hired in the first place.. limited access trees are our specialty.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Eric my favorite tool for pulling trees is the Masdaam A20 rope puller. I have found that 1500# is more than enough oomph in most cases and it certainly does less damage to the the grass than a truck.
We very rarely use the truck to pull.
We very rarely use the truck to pull.
flushcut
TreeHouser
I use what ever it takes to tip a tree, a truck, mini, masdam, fiddle blocks, wedges, a heard of groundies or a combo of triple sheave blocks and a masdam. I wish I had a GRCS to add but maybe later in the season. Git ur dun!
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
After re-reading your first post, I wonder how long a picket set-up would really take you to set-up, pull out, and repair the soil/ turf. I bet it wouldn't be long if you have a way to lever the t-posts or pipe out of the soil. http://www.harborfreight.com/t-post-lifter-38444.html
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
I, too, get hired for jobs where there is little access for machinery, or the collateral damage of wedging or pulling trees whole, or largely intact, is not acceptable. Now at Parks, with dead and/ or rotten trees, bring on the wedges or 1/2" Amsteel and we'll put some wood on the ground. Professional mess makers, no clean-up! Mostly natural forest settings, just miss the leave trees, utilities, buildings, and try not to dent the asphalt. Shrubs grow back. Too bad for turf.
If we are pulling, we can operate the front bumper winch from within the protection of the cab, out of line with the pull, or hook the line on a big boat cleat that is welded to a hitch tube slid into the back of the truck and be in the cab. This offers a lot of protection that isn't always available from an open cab of a piece of equipment if a line breaks under tension.
For a faster approach than setting up an anchor and pull rope, or towing a machine to/ from a job...the wedge.
IF you are typically working in tight quarters, and are not used to wedging trees over, and don't have the opportunity to practice much, I suggest putting a line in the tree if its got a strong enough hinge, and practice your wedging, with the line as back-up in non-critical situations.
The guys that I work with at Parks that are on the east side of the Cascades are former Asplundh workers where the SOP is put a line in it. They are still sometimes trying to wedge over heavy trees with a single wedge and pounding like hell. A good thing that the one guy can swing hard.
A pull rope is good if you have to move the tree quickly and your pulling method has that capacity, like if you have a questionable hinge and/ or significant side lean and don't want the hinge to have to last a long time against gravity, and want the mass to get some momentum before the tipping speeds up with gravity.
If we are pulling, we can operate the front bumper winch from within the protection of the cab, out of line with the pull, or hook the line on a big boat cleat that is welded to a hitch tube slid into the back of the truck and be in the cab. This offers a lot of protection that isn't always available from an open cab of a piece of equipment if a line breaks under tension.
For a faster approach than setting up an anchor and pull rope, or towing a machine to/ from a job...the wedge.
IF you are typically working in tight quarters, and are not used to wedging trees over, and don't have the opportunity to practice much, I suggest putting a line in the tree if its got a strong enough hinge, and practice your wedging, with the line as back-up in non-critical situations.
The guys that I work with at Parks that are on the east side of the Cascades are former Asplundh workers where the SOP is put a line in it. They are still sometimes trying to wedge over heavy trees with a single wedge and pounding like hell. A good thing that the one guy can swing hard.
A pull rope is good if you have to move the tree quickly and your pulling method has that capacity, like if you have a questionable hinge and/ or significant side lean and don't want the hinge to have to last a long time against gravity, and want the mass to get some momentum before the tipping speeds up with gravity.
S
SydTreeguy
Guest
I bet it wouldn't take as long as the time required to repair the damage falling a large tree onto a lawn causes
To the OP, One that might give you some ideas is the 'slammer' made in new zealand. You can pretty easy weld one up yourself. Take a look at the video at about 2:30. Seems like a lot of work, but they got 'er done.
Another idea for an anchor is.... using an anchor. There are lots of styles out there, and you largely get what you pay for. The CQR/Rocna style anchors would be your best bet. Get a big one. Dig it in a little and you'll be amazed at the tonnage they hold. Dont trust them in sandy/loamy soils, but great holding in clay and most normal soil types. Fine in rocky soils also.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
All it leaves is a little hole in the ground .You can pry bar them right up and out with a lever and a fulcrum .
Now really you get an 8_10 foot 2 by 6 ,a piece of fire wood and a short chain and put a 200 pound man on the end of it you can lift a lot .Little guy ,get a longer piece of lumber .
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
And yes some jobs here are like that too. I mean I don't know your market but here I do everything from a technical rig it all down, speedline or whatever to straight up handfalling. If it's a tree I pretty much deal with it. I was just saying that if a truck or whatever can make the pull, why knot? There is no way I would put an anchor in and rig mechanical advantage where a truck could just pull it. And on the flipside if a tree is inaccessible I will finger out a way to get it down and cleaned up no matter what. My point was to do whatever makes most sense. I do the tree as simply as possible.
If you've got a niche market and enough work to only do impossible access trees then great for you. Around here to go steady you do all trees from the high-end fancy pants don't divot my lawn to the knock 'em down buck to length and get the self-loading seven axle logging truck in and get them gone to be milled.
emr
Cheesehead Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #50
I have yet to figure out a way to compete with the removal guys here. There are two very different types of tree companies around here. The ones with the big equipment who dont climb and the ones that dont have the equipment but climb. Guess which company I am. We are so ill-equipped to handle the large removals that we cant get close to those guys in price. On the flip side of that coin, those guys with the multiple, big buckets, the loaders, the clam trucks cant climb so they just pass on those jobs or refer them to us. There are several companies around here that know they cant climb so they actually tell their customers to call us. It works for us.
Squisher, are all the companies by you like you are? Its hard for me to imagine a company around here that actually can do it all and do it at a reasonable price. It seems like larger cities with larger companies are the only areas that support do it all companies.
Squisher, are all the companies by you like you are? Its hard for me to imagine a company around here that actually can do it all and do it at a reasonable price. It seems like larger cities with larger companies are the only areas that support do it all companies.
