Logging on TV ... "Boys in the Woods"

[Altissimus]

I've been sick for a week and very bored unable to do much for work other than service saws. On FB this show come up , couple good old boys from Missouri running Stihls who are nice enough that log hardwoods on easy ground that's more than nice enough (quite a bit of Wanut plus). Anywho , what they call bore cuts is something I've never ever seen. Seems they bore in going all the way through , in the direction of the desired lay removing about 80% leaving two strips on the outsides about 10% each. Back the skidder to it and get a little push on it. Finale is angle cutting both strips right through to the first cut (on real bigs it's a few cuts) leaving NO HINGE. Doesn't seem at all right or safe to me but seems to work for them I guess. Has anyone ever seen or done this ? Signed , "bewildered in Vermont" ... PS , no hard hats , hearing protection , or chaps ... don't seem to use Wedges except rare occasions.

 

[lxskllr]

There's a thread around here that I think talks about something like that. No idea where to find it though. It may have been prompted by an unusual stump find. Al might know something about it?

 

[SeanKroll]

Where is it viewable?


Sorry you're sick.

I've been outside the house for 5 minutes in 4-5 days from being sick.

Feeling stir crazy.



Deep breathing helps clear the lungs. Often sick people recline and shallowly breathe for days, sometimes resulting in a secondary infection of pneumonia.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yup. Looks like an good old reality tv show of total unprofessional behavior for ratings SOP.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

No I don't watch these things. No TV and I looked it up on You Tube.

 

[lxskllr]

Found it...

Spur cut or also called Flat cut explained

Al asked about a flat cut in another thread. First off DON'T DO THIS, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WERE THE TREE IS GOING TO FALL!!! There is no hinge wood or face cut. You start with a with high powered saw 066 or equivalent size. 090's were used a lot for this also. The bar only needs to go half...

www.masterblasterhome.com

Got linked from this thread...

Beranek's Coos Bay felling cut vs. Burnham's

Jerry, I was very interested to note in your Fundamentals that the method you describe for forming this felling cut is somewhat different than that I was taught. You put no face cut in at all, just take a third of the diameter off each side, parallel to the head lean...then cut hell for...

www.masterblasterhome.com

 

[lxskllr]

I've been watching some of the videos to see exactly how they fell, and the stuff he's doing is weird. Having trouble wrapping my head around it, and it looks overcomplicated. This is a pair of videos that are fairly easy to see what's going on, and about 10 minutes each. I'm still not 100% on the mechanics happening.

Part1



Part2

 

[CurSedVoyce]

What a bunch of .... was like watching a Murphy vid. Perhaps that's where he learned that. Boring cut probably saved a barber chain incident, but crikey, looked like felled with the favor of lean to me. Lotta mucking about.

 

[flushcut]

The claw hammer 🔨 is a tell IMO.

 

[lxskllr]

looked like felled with the favor of lean to me.

He wanted to swing it a bit off the natural falling direction. That has some interest for me, but I have no intention of doing whatever it is he's doing. Let me ask you something... That black oak I posted in the 'how was your day' thread will be dropped sometime in the nearish future. I'd like to fall it ~15° off it's natural lean. It's probably close to 40" at the stump. Do you think that requires anything special to move it a little bit, or just face it where I want it to go and send it? Thoughts have been tapered hinge, triple hinge, sticking a rock in the face, or nothing. It doesn't really matter. It's just a matter of convenience for me, so low stakes. What do you think?

 

[greengreer]

15 deg isn't a whole lot if the wood is there. You can leave holding wood on the tension side and always take more as the tree goes if needed. If it's hollow or rotten it might take some persuading.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

My personal opinion is I can not coach you on how to fell a black oak I have never stood at and read all it's attributes and let my head wrap around how to fell it into the desired lay.
Pictures may be worth a thousand words but never tell the whole story from afar.

 

[lxskllr]

I think I'll go with a tapered hinge and see what happens. I can adjust from there in the future if needed.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Our local black oaks hinge ok, but dont hold well in fiber. Kinda brittle all things considered. We use rope a lot to help start the tree into a desired direction in conjunction with a proper set face.
Dont know about your black oaks there.
Love the wood though.

 

[lxskllr]

Oaks in general are my favorite trees. I like everything about them, from form to wood grain. In large quantities, the wood(red oaks at least) can smell a little bit like vomit if you let your mind go there, but I don't find the smell disagreeable.

 

[SeanKroll]

How funny that I thought he was the from Murphy School of Cutting and Faffing-about and Overcomplicating and Pro-Technique Denial.



Here's my how-to video.
Don't have pro's come tell me what I did wrong. You gotta figure out what works for you. This obviously worked for me.




@lxskllr 15 degrees is nothing to turn most live trees from the lay if mostly upright.

How much lean? What is at risk?

John, what's your profile name mean?

 

[SeanKroll]

oh, wait, did you say 15 degrees, you have to have a skidloader!

 

[lxskllr]

Stone dead tree, moderate(can't define closer than that without standing there) lean, no risk. It's leaning enough that I think a barberchair is possible without *boring, but not a sure thing.

This will be a play tree for me. I'll double cut it with my 25" bar just for the experience. My 36" would be close to making it through, but not quite. Might as well try a proper doublecut. Tapered hinge, and see how that affects the face direction if at all.

*On boring... Did you notice in the second video(I think) if you watched, it looked like he started his bore with the top of the bar? Skating a fine line there...

 

[SeanKroll]

Yep, that was some skill he worked out there, Way Out of the box.




Do black oaks barberchair? Not that many trees seem to want to if you're using good techniques, including a sharp and powerful enough saw. Some are looking to kill a cutter. I've had 2-3 red alders pop over 15 years, and I had options I didn't exercise with the two I remember, leaving myself room for having forgotten one.

Gutting the hinge reduces barber-chairing without decreasing hinge width, like cutting the corners off will do.

Most trees work with basic cuts, as a starting point. Some trees Require specialty cuts. KISS Keep It Safe and Simple.



Reading the lean of decurrent trees is definitely harder.
Agreeing with what Stephen said about not being able to tell without seeing it in person.
Pictures accompanying posts will help you much, much more to progress faster.



Sounds like you want to fall to the favor the weight. Is that right?



When felling with the lean, needing wedging and fearing barberchairing don't mix, IMO.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't think they're particularly prone to barberchair, but my concern is the huge amount of mass wanting to go over before I'm ready. I don't have a bar that'll go through in one shot, and I'm not so interested in racing it either. I want to take my time(for a change), set it up the way I want, then let it go without any time pressure.

edit:
Oh, without through study, center of mass appears to be with the lean. It's a typical broccoli oak with a relatively even distribution of branches. Nothing too weird going on there.

 

[Altissimus]

My take on those vids , the guy is a misguided rook , there's the bad. Good is he actually wants to use the hinge , hell , even Wedges ... which means all is not lost. Couple few weeks of actual logging and he would see how much time and effort he wastes and drop the stupid angle cuts on the back as they are bullshit and unnecessary ...

 

[SeanKroll]

No problem, John. Just control the tree.

Hope you don't mind me saying, I live in the world of what I DO Want. I think it is the best way. You DON"T Want it to go before you are ready. I don't either. I Don't Want to be hit by an bus. I don't Want to fall to a crippling disability or death I don't want _______.

I DO Want to maintain total control over the tree until I release the tree. (commonly very easy).

I DO Want to live a long, safe life. (I think I can plan to stay away from high speed buses coming at me).

I DO Want to have a fun time climbing things and the come down and go do more fun things.

I DO Want to replace bad habits and learn new skills and in-grain solid, safe habits without cutting corners (different that a safe short-cut).

This particularly helps when physically and mentally tired/ dehydrated/ poorly slept, injured (!), etc., common to a big storm response or when people do let their personal needs suffer.


I'd cut from the left side of the picture, and I'd definitely use a humboldt-face for a heavy face. Easier to get out. Humboldt's save board-feet. Become good at both.



Today, I Did Want to help my neighbors with the big cracked Lombardi Poplar next to Ex-Logger Charlie's Shop and the other neighbor's shop, come home, eat dinner, and read some funny stuff on the forums. So far So good.




Drawing coming...

 

[SeanKroll]

Better than a drawing...

I started this. I'm tired.

I'll make you a real video using a chunk in the yard sometime, or tomorrow if I'm lucky, in the cracked Lombardi with a 36" or 42" bar that I kinda forgot all about, until I spotted it in the spare bars in the truck 2 weeks ago.





I remember the early days of a similarly girthy snag needing felling, and having a 28" bar on a ms440. First double-cut, bar and a half wide.

 

[flushcut]

That has to be the worst arts and crafts chainsaw depiction I have ever seen lol.

 

[lxskllr]

You must have missed the pic of my trash find McCulloch(Taiwan) a couple months ago :^P