is this tree over thinned?

[SkwerI]

Mike took the picture using a tripod and timer, Guy.

And now I think I remember the tree. JP had his GRCS on it and we had a big lead to take off over the house. He was in the top of the tree and I asked if he could use a hand. He set my rope for me, I came up to help, and he went to the ground leaving me to do the tree. :what:

 

[Tucker943]

Please don't misunderstand me, young friend. You are absolutely correct in your assertion that people and trees must co-exist where they share space. I agree with everything you have said here.

My point is that we fool ourselves if we think trees benefit from our intervention...it's only the people who gain from an arb's work, not the trees. Well, and those of us who do the work...obviously we gain from the process, too...$$$

I understand exactly what you mean now and couldnt agree more. Dont take my heel digging and ranting as any sort of disrespect to anyone.

I guess I can better sum up my opinion, after hearing other opinions in this debate as this..... Trees themselves dont need a thing from mankind. Humans need trees assisted to suit their ow needs.

I guess kinda like....animals dont need game wardens. But humans need game wardens.

 

[Burnham]

"Fair enough, I'll happily agree that in extreme cases of damage the tree cannot cope...but in those cases could human intervention help?"

Sure could've helped prevent it, and yes an intelligent human with a a saw can speed closure--attached pic of a closed 6" wound 6 years after Mr. Skwerl headed a broken central leader back to the first good node. Maybe Brian will opine on what that tree would look like today, had he not intervened.

"And I'm not saying "all damage is sealed over"...I'm saying the tree doesn't need our attentions except to meet our desires for that tree."

See above. You said "If an accident befalls a tree, say wind or snow load breakage, it **compartmentalizes just fine** without human intervention...I might argue that it does so better than it can handle saw cuts, so far as keeping rot from expanding."

See the closed saw cut attached, and another view on this question, and see how your argument looks in the face of that evidence. From this point of view, the anti-arboriculture rant holds no water.

Like you, I greatly admire the power of forests to take care of themselves, and the way that healthy trees unstressed by city life can overcome damage. Individually speaking, trees per se benefit from arboriculture.

O and Pork, does the advanced assessment have to include drilling?

View attachment 30118View attachment 30119

Rant? Moi?

It does look great, nice example of very successful intervention.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't live in an urban environment...trees are valuable as individuals in that scenario. Not so much in my world, so I tend to look at them from the perspective of the forest environment, less so the single tree.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I think it's time for a break....
Dedicated to Burnham.

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[Bermy]

I can agree with Burnham's statement about 'naturally pruned' limbs (wind/ice broken) being dealt with better by the tree than by saw cuts to some extent. I have come across quite a few snags that are not torn into the trunk, that when I cut them back to the collar found no discolouration or evidence of rot, so I have changed my strategy somewhat for tree species that I have found this in previously, if the tree is old or compromised, I leave the natural snags alone, why make a fresh cut that will draw further on energy reserves...indeed natural processes can teach us, and can carry over into the urban environment.

I'll stay on my soapbox for intervention in nature reserves, compromised natives benefit from invasives being cut or pruned away from them, in this case there is no immediate dollar benefit, just a benefit to that suffering native...in an environment where 85% of the vegetation is introduced or invasive, we MUST intervene or risk losing a unique landscape. 20sq miles...only a few hundred acres of precolonial environment left, unfortunately we must manage it or risk losing it.

 

[Burnham]

I think it's time for a break....
Dedicated to Burnham.

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[Porkbrick]

O and Pork, does the advanced assessment have to include drilling?

no it does not, i included drilling as an example.

i agree with burnam that nature gets by just fine without any intervention from us. but, just fine for a forest is not necessarily just fine for a residential tree. i think pruning is necessary and vital to the health and longevity of urban trees and forests. i don't think thinning for the sake of thinning is good for trees, but i live on the sunny California coast where we don't have to worry about snow and hurricanes and such. under those circumstances i can understand the benefits to the trees health and survival. jaime

 

[Burnham]

I feel I must reinterate, for it seems to have been overlooked as this thread has progressed...my comments re what good is and is not derived by trees from our management actions stands apart from the requirements of co-existence with human neighbors. In that situation, we must frequently intervene for both our own and the tree's good.

Now, Nature Boy will retire from this field of debate .

 

[treelooker]

Good ol' Nat. He was so smooth. And thanks, Pork--sapwood rot generally can be assessed without drilling. And thanks, B: we agree.

" if the tree is old or compromised, I leave the natural snags alone, why make a fresh cut that will draw further on energy reserves."

absolutely--lots of energy goes into compartmentalizing snags. Removing that tissue removes those reserves. Where the break is near a node and you get there years later, let it be and leave it up to the tree.

"..indeed natural processes can teach us, and can carry over into the urban environment."

Trees are amazing.

 

[Bermy]

'S'allright Burnham...healthy debate makes us think!
I appreciate what you have to say...always!