Help in Estimate of a Bid on Bradford Pear Removal

[rfwoody]

Hello,

I am a one man operation, trying to get started part time in the tree removal business.

Could you please help me with the thought process and practical aspects that would go into the estimate of bidding a tree removal job?

Specifically as an example - what about a job to remove a 40' Bradford Pear tree that can be felled from the ground, haul off everything and leave the stump a few inches high.

Thanks!

P.S. I have liability insurance.

 

[SkwerI]

It all boils down to time management. You have to figure what your time is worth and then walk through the various stages of the job adding up the time to accomplish the required tasks. Loading and hauling the debris is going to be the massive time killer considering your setup. Miscalculating the number of trips required to haul off the tree can make or break the job.

 

[Altissimus]

Hardest part of the Business , Sales ... If I had a Hundred Bucks for every bid I F'd up ...

 

[sawman]

Yup what altissimus said

 

[woodworkingboy]

Yup, you can be doing the best work in the world and still need to be telling the potential customer something so that they believe in you.

 

[SeanKroll]

That tree is one anyone can handle, pretty much. No fancy rigging, etc. Low risk, lower market value.

Felling isn't always easier than dismantling for hand- handling of material.



If your competition has a giant chipper with a winch, they might be in and out in 20-30 minutes.

Figuring out the fair market value per site within your market is a time-consuming process.

Start tracking all your time for the job. Renting a trailer might be more cost effective than 3 times as many dump runs with truck alone. $400 would get you an old beater trailer. Much lower to load and unload.

Figuring how you can power unload is important (cinching rope around brush, push the gas pedal, for example) is key. You need an anchor point for that.

Renting a small dump trailer could help.



I had a grapple truck stuff 2 Doug fir (around/ under 100' each) medium to light branches, 5 yards of wood waste and dirty rakings, and a few bits and pieces, with room to spare for $400, travel time, loading and disposal. He loaded in under an hour.

If that was accessible to the grapple truck, you could be in and out in no time.

50 trips uphill from the back yard, another story.

Plan to roll as much as possible. The ground never gets tired, and does a lot of the work.


Consider the wood and brush as being all waste material the customer needs to be rid of. If you make any money on it from firewood, so be it. If the customer sees firewood value, offer your cutting services, let them split, move, stack, dry, move, deliver, and offload it themselves.

 

[SeanKroll]

Does Google maps show the tree?

 

[rfwoody]

Does Google maps show the tree?

Google maps didn't seem too helpful for this one, but here are pictures... actually there are 2 Bradford Pears for this job.
I had stepped it off at approx 40' high each.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks All for your responses and advice!

Attempting to heed and digest it all.

Yes, the automation and time saving methods are the direction I need to be heading in.

Since this is part time at this point I can afford to get beat up a few times on underestimating the amount of (physical/time) work involved as it will be a good learning experience whereby hopefully it will help me pinpoint and fine tune how to save time and effort.

Yes, that does seem like a real juggling/balancing calculation of bids and prices
--- comparing my inexpensive "brute force" methods which require lots of time vs. someone with lots of expensive equipment who can do the job in very little time.

 

[SeanKroll]

Measuring the DBH of the tree is useful for calibration.


If the tree has been topped, they are more of a pain, and more work, as they're bigger for the height, and crowded with suckers.

Calculate/ estimate your cost per mile (fuel is only one part, the cheapest part) and time, when thinking of just using a pick-up truck. The trailer will pay itself off quickly for dump runs.





Learning as you go, and working alone, at your age...

what will hurt a young man...

 

[Mick!]

Too complicated Sean.

How longs it going to take you? One day at a guess.

$500. Cheap enough to undercut the pros, pricey enough for you to make a buck.

 

[Raj]

I go by half day and full day rates.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks everyone.

SeanKroll, haha I very much do appreciate the detail!

Mick, very perceptive...I actually already bid and got the job for $500

It is for a friend of mine, although I tried to charge him a true business price, and suggested he shop around.

I figure it will take me 2 or 3... 4 at most full days.
I'm figuring 6-8 loads.
* Free dumping spot (my house) is 45 minutes away.
* $35-40 a load dump is 15 minutes away.

My age, with the heat, will slow me down some.
But I'm hoping the CoolVest will extend my time and energy (when it gets here).

I am trying to come up with "sustainable" true business pricing....haha, but this job will probably will come to less than $10 per hour.

For me, the real visceral experience of this and similar beginning jobs will help me know what changes/improvements I need to make with efficiency, etc. (e.g. a trailer, SeanKroll), so I'm glad to have the job and be doing something.

Thanks again for all the comments, suggestions, advice, ect.!

 

[rfwoody]

I go by half day and full day rates.

Thanks Raj, that sounds good when I can figure out what that is for me.
Right now my effort is pretty diluted since I'm doing it all "manually"

However... I do think it is a legitimate selling point for me, assuming I can give a true business price that is lower than a big company.

What selling point? Merely this: It may take me 5 days to do what they can do in 1 day, but by allowing the extra time for the job you pay less.

 

[Altissimus]

Aftermath , or after math on my bids ... If I'm making a hundred an hour I feel like my team won the world series. Down below fifty even thirty five I'll still take it over working at the ski area. Ten doesn't cut it as the gear is expensive and the work is hard , someone has to pay ...

 

[SeanKroll]

What do you have at your disposal for cutting and moving tools?

If you're dumping at your own place, you should be able to have an anchor for the brush, and drive out from under it. Easy to unload. A lot of commercial dump spots don't have that available. Its either dump bed, or manual.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Altissimus.
Thanks SeanKroll, Just chainsaws for cutting. Rope and Masdaam rope puller and some misc. rigging hardware.
Peavy (cant hook), hookaroon for handling.
Just my truck currently... but I have a 10' 2x12 for an inclined plane for rolling heavy rounds into the bed.

The anchor point to pull the stuff off sounds like a great idea which I will begin thinking about.

 

[SeanKroll]

You will do better to cut the wood and have someone take it from the city street (or customer's lawn...not so legit, but commonly done, I bet) for free, or bring your a pizza for lunch.

You make the wood-hauling contacts (Craigslist, church, friends, neighbors, enemies, anyone) and charge for the disposal.


Try to find a grapple truck service. The one I used recently was $400 drivetime/ loading/ disposal...would have fit 8 of those pears in, in under an hour.

 

[SeanKroll]

Thanks Altissimus.
Thanks SeanKroll, Just chainsaws for cutting. Rope and Masdaam rope puller and some misc. rigging hardware.
Peavy (cant hook), hookaroon for handling.
Just my truck currently... but I have a 10' 2x12 for an inclined plane for rolling heavy rounds into the bed.

The anchor point to pull the stuff off sounds like a great idea which I will begin thinking about.

Get a heavy duty hand-truck. I'll post a picture of mine, which has a minor modification, making it way more effective for treework. Had it about 10 years. Bent the handle some this year by levering millable oak logs. These slid right onto the trailer off the hand-truck.


You will want a trailer with a high mounted winch or anchor point for pulling logs into the trailer. As well, your offloading anchor point should pull up, not down, or at least dead sizeways.

 

[rfwoody]

SeanKroll...
* When you say "wood-hauling contacts" are you talking about people that need wood (cut up trees) hauled away?
* On your "grapple truck service" did you hire/rent a grapple truck yourself? ... or contracted out the grapple truck service to come haul away the wood from your job?
*Would like to see picture of your modified heavy-duty hand truck!
Thanks!

 

[SeanKroll]

People wanting firewood who will lift it and load it themselves.

Owner of the grapple truck drivers and operates the truck. I don't know what he does with it, besides make it disappear.

 

[rfwoody]

....Owner of the grapple truck drivers and operates the truck. I don't know what he does with it, besides make it disappear.

SeanKroll, so you are *sub-contracting* out the cleanup to someone else: the grapple truck guy, right?
Thanks.

 

[SeanKroll]

Yes.

You might subcontractor another laborer-type business, like a landscaper or junk hauler.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks SeanKroll. My GL insurance won't let me sub-contract out anything (as I recall)... not the best insurance since I don't have any track record.
But I am allowed to give recommendations to the customer, as long as I have nothing to do between the customer and the "sub-contractor".

 

[rfwoody]

Get a heavy duty hand-truck. I'll post a picture of mine, which has a minor modification, making it way more effective for treework. Had it about 10 years. Bent the handle some this year by levering millable oak logs. These slid right onto the trailer off the hand-truck.

Sean, would you post a picture of your hand truck if you get a chance? Thanks!

Also, your "chainsaw chipping" advice from another thread worked great!... along with using a tarp to rake and collect all the "chipped" up brush into.