Got to vent a bit!!!!

[MasterBlaster]

Alway (usually) choose the middle ground, price-wise.

 

[NickfromWI]

I try to always come in on the high side.


love
nick

 

[802climber]

Thanks for venting. This thread makes me feel like I'm not alone!

My question is where are the lowballers cutting all these corners? Or are they really just working for nothing?

 

[matdand]

I see them around, they usualy have older equipment that's paid for, so they figure they can charge less. One of my competitors, which is also a friend that has been in business 20+ years, told me that guys like that charge less but never can put money aside to anticipate having to replace their gear. When the day comes, they realise how much it cost and start charging way more.

Like Nick, I try to be on the high side, but also, try to be consistent with my pricing year round. I've noticed that guys charge less during the winter and spring because they have less work, then in summer and fall jack up the prices. I figure if the tree is worth x in the fall, it's worth x all year.

 

[Tucker943]

If there is emergency work to be done, don't your custys need you?

Ya. That's what makes it a rat race I guess. We aren't talking weeks of municipal work though. Occasional tree here and there in the road. Those townships are my custys though in a sense. A tree blocking a road is a bigger emergency then a tree in a pool.

 

[Tucker943]

Speaking of low bids, ill try and get pictures in the next month that will blow your minds. Years ago I bid clearing one side of a road back. All trees taken down. About 120' in from the road, and about 3/8 mile long. All limbs and wood disposed of. The trees at the road itself reached out over the road and just about over a 3 phase on the opposite side. The winning bid was 5 grand. They weren't even professionals. They stood on ladders to tie ropes 15 feet up some of these trees arched out over the road and pull them back in the woods with a worn out skid steer.

 

[cory]

Ha ha, got some more fodder here for this silly ass thread. Just did another town bid, 3 huge trees, lots of medium ones, a few small ones. Remove, grind and topsoil the stumps, about 35 trees. The bid results are public, 5 bids plus me. Lewis Tree Service was the high bid at $84k, a local outfit was at 48k, I was at 42k, and the winning bid…drumroll please….from a tree service 2.5 hours away in rhode Island………..$14,900. That includes police flagmen needed at several sites at $54/man hour. And there is a shitload of snow on the ground which makes all the stumps and at least half the trees more difficult mainly due to making roads extremely narrow.

Your thoughts, please.

 

[MasterBlaster]

My thought? The town should always throw out the highest and the lowest bids.

 

[cory]

Good call.

 

[flushcut]

I have a a Muni custy that I lowball just to help with winter work and schedule filler. Some ways I have cut costs is by having locals haul the wood and burning where I can. That being said I usually come in about a hundred or two less than the next guy. The way I see lowballing is just beat out the next guy and don't cut your own throat.
Cory, I have no how a guy could come in that far under the next bid. That shit is just crazy!

 

[sawinredneck]

That's $425 a tree, roughly, never mind the additional costs. I'm cheap, but I can't even see getting out of bed for that job, the way you describe it at least!
Figure what, three to four tree's a day? (again going off the description) With a full crew, at $1700 a day, best case, I can't see it.
I'm also with Butch, too many times I've seen the high bid turn out to be a "friend of a friend of someone important" and the kick backs ensue. I also wonder if the low bid has all the ins up to date? I dunno, that's just a huge variance in price, I get trying to keep a crew busy, but there's no way they could even cover overhead with that bid IMO.

 

[cory]

I personally looked at every tree and bid it low as I could without being for free. Meaning, low enough that I knew I could still get screwed if things didn't go smoothly. And the hourly cop fee is a double whammy cuz if a tree takes longer than anticipated, then you getting hammered by the cop fee too.

Their prices are dropping- in the beginning of this thread I wrote I bid 19k on an earlier bid, they did it for $7.8k.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Maybe they are a bunch of trust fund kids, and working simply to not be so messed up by their inheritance.

 

[Tucker943]

That's good. They deserve the loss they're going to take. It'll serve to educate them or remove them from the herd.

 

[cory]

Idk, they keep coming back for more. It's hard to figure.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

That's good. They deserve the loss they're going to take. It'll serve to educate them or remove them from the herd.

That's my guess, too.


Isn't that Prevailing Wage work? Here, that's $44.xx/ man-hour for a climber/ sawyer or large chipper operator. Subbing a grapple truck might help on some of that.

I bid on a job for $18,000, knowing if I got it, it would have cushion. Part for the experience, and easily being privy to the other bidders' numbers. Job went for $7-8k.

I wonder how asphalt damage is dealt with. Maybe sometimes the plan is dump into the street, and do a quick cold-patch, hope nobody notices???

 

[Mick!]

All I'll say is that this debate rages on other forums, not just tree ones, every trade forum.

If you just dismiss people as crazy loss making undercutters you might find yourself watching a lot of daytime TV in a few years.

 

[cory]

I'm not worried about this bid winner at all, just curious as to his rationale. He'll be the one watching day time tv, he leaves megabucks on the table. I'm quite happy I didn't win it cuz I bid it very tight. I'd rather not work my ass off and lose money doing it. I can compete on a quality/safety/speed basis with anyone. I guess it is a simple fact, set in stone, that muni winter work is worthless.

 

[Mick!]

There was a thread on AT years ago, a job had been lost by a member felling a line of pops roadside.
So he had bid 20k and had learnt the winning bidder had got it at 8k, was aghast moaning about it like buggery.
So the guy who won it came on out of the blue says he has a 13" chipper, tractors and grain trailers, and his tip for the chip was a mile away, did it in two days, thought 4k a day wasn't too shabby. The op had a couple of small vans and a 6" chipper.
I guess my point is dismissing people cheaper than you as idiots or cowboys is complacent.
Ps I eschew local council work for the most part.

PPs figures are approximate to illustrate the point.

 

[Tucker943]

Cheap is cheap. We've all been the low bidder and at different points, will be again. But coming in under what the hard cost(fuel, payroll, etc) should be for the job is mind boggling. That's not cheap, that's taking a loss. In that case, daytime TV is a wiser choice. Depending on what cable/satellite package you have, however.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I hear of companies making bids and doing work that puts them at a loss, the reason being that somehow it creates a position that there is the better likelihood to get profitable work later.

 

[matdand]

Ok gents, putting in a bid for a big muni contract tomorrow, I was going to put my prices on here, but I think I'll wait. I highly doubt a competitor will find it, but ya never know!!! City is expecting to spend between 250k and 400k, I will be on the lower end of that, but still feel I can make some dough. Last years contract was expected to be between 100k and 200k and came out at 96k. Let's see what happens!

 

[cory]

Good luck! Btw, you're gonna get smoked!

 

[matdand]

Ha, I hope you're wrong man !

 

[sotc]

Haha, funny Cory!