Friction Savers???

[Porkbrick]

those are real pretty, i like it.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I wonder if PEX would work... Have to look at the water and gas we have in town... Those FSs are tidy and tight

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Good idea, Deva.

Bonner, a lot has come from you starting this thread. Good one.

 

[bonner1040]

I really like the homemade conduit savers!!

 

[bonner1040]

Anyone use a sleeve style FS for lowering limbs? Most small trim jobs i do i don't seem to find the time to set a block for the work line, but the conduit sleeve seems easy enough to set and retrieve that it would be worth the wear and tear savings.

Thoughts?

 

[HolmenTree]

Here is how I learned how to install a Buckingham RR FS from my first ArborMaster Training / I.S.A. climbing course 12 yrs ago. Always retreived it with a simple overhand knot on the end of the climb line with no problems.
I drew this on my daughters dry erase board today at poolside. My Jepsons' Tree Climbers Companion book is at home 3,400 miles away but I don't think this technique is in it.

Fig #1: Isolate the throwline over the preferred T.I.P. or limb [the orange line is the throwline and shot bag]

Fig #2: Untie bag off line and pass its working end through the small ring and re tie bag with a "slipped" anchor hitch. Pass the running end of the line through the large ring and proceed to pull running end / fall of line and friction saver up to T.I.P. When inches from the limb [good idea to wear gloves] give a hard tug and the small ring will circle the limb and "clink" against the large ring. Release bag and line to ground again.

Fig #3: Remove bag from end of line and tie the line to the spliced eye of your climbing rope with a slipped anchor hitch [if no eye on rope use a slipped anchor hitch backed with a half hitch]. Pull rope up and through rings and back down to ground.Untie throwline and connect end of rope to your saddle's bridge, tie your split tail's friction hitch to the fall of the rope [side coming out of rope bag]. Now your ready to climb.
To retreive friction saver from T.I.P. unhook lead end of rope from saddle's bridge and tie overhand knot in end of rope [if splice eyed,tie knot past swollen spliced area] With a firm tug pull friction saver and rope to ground.[ just the weight of the rope helps pulls the knot thru the large ring and the FS to the ground]
I think this is the best technique for installing from the ground. With a successful first throw with the shot bag / line I can do this technique along with the split tail's friction hitch tied included, in approx 1 minute.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Anyone use a sleeve style FS for lowering limbs? Most small trim jobs i do i don't seem to find the time to set a block for the work line, but the conduit sleeve seems easy enough to set and retrieve that it would be worth the wear and tear savings.

Thoughts?

Can't say about the conduit ones. The leather ones are bombproof. They make one designed for rigging (3/4" I.D.). The metal ones seem like they would be more likely to become damaged by rigging, especially if the crotch isn't dead smooth, but IDK from experience.

 

[bonner1040]

Can't say about the conduit ones. The leather ones are bombproof. They make one designed for rigging (3/4" I.D.). The metal ones seem like they would be more likely to become damaged by rigging, especially if the crotch isn't dead smooth, but IDK from experience.

That is along the lines of what i was thinking, that the impact of rigging would break them and cause sharp edges to fome possibly.

 

[pigwot]

I have never used the conduit style for active rigging, but have used them to ease hauling up heavier items like bigger saws and cabling supplies and the gas drill; makes the pulling easier for the groundie..

 

[treesmith]

What would be the advantage of rigging through one of the sleeve-type savers? I mean if you're having to worry about kinking the saver, why not just use a block? I'm thinking about making a R&R type for light rigging so as to be able to set it from the ground before ascending. Of course with the Wraptor, setting blocks has never been easier!

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Leather tube type.
Set it from the ground.
Preserve the rope.
Preserve thin barked trees.

 

[Burnham]

I was wondering the same, re using a block instead.

 

[Bodean]

I do my install a little different,
but here's a good drawing compliments of Sizzle Chest, years ago.

 

[Burnham]

I rather more often use that method too, Deva. Saves having to find the tail of the throwline to thread through as with the other method...which matters if you use long throwlines like we do.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Ditto...

And this...

Of course with the Wraptor, setting blocks has never been easier!

 

[HolmenTree]

What would be the advantage of rigging through one of the sleeve-type savers? I mean if you're having to worry about kinking the saver, why not just use a block?

If I have time later I'll draw a sketch on how to install and retreive a block high up in a tree with rigging rope installed in it.......from the ground.
You all must of heard of the 'Static Removable False Crotch'?
There are different ways to do it ,some more complex then others, but my technique is simple and works very well, installed and retreived from the ground.

 

[FJR]

I use a static false crotch set from the ground fairly often with a dedicated 5/8 stable braid line that has a spliced eye for the block. I may be using it less now that the wraptor is on hand.


As for setting a friction savor from the ground, I have a question. Do most of you guys have a spliced eye on your throw line or do you attach the bag with a hitch? I never set the friction saver right away because it drives me nuts having to untie the throw bag. What is the trick for fast throw bag removal?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Is that a floating false crotch or static? Is you'r 5/8" rope running over a crotch down to the block with a rigging line in it?

 

[simplypete]

If I remember right it takes two rigging lines with the one holding the block having a large loop in the end, tied with a normal bowline. I think I learned it in the art and science of practical rigging. It'll be a good refresher for me.

 

[Porkbrick]

i am intrigued. i was wondering about rigging through the conduit as well. some times i want to avoid climbing up to set a block and climbing back up to retrieve and or avoiding the force multiplying effects of hauling the block up on a line and tying it off at the base of the tree. i see how crushed conduit could quickly become rope un-friendly. maybe appropriate for light rigging only, or just use a steel ring-ring dedicated to rigging. maybe ill have to do some tests on 3/4 conduit to find out how much force it takes to deform it.

 

[FJR]

Is that a floating false crotch or static? Is you'r 5/8" rope running over a crotch down to the block with a rigging line in it?

I may have the terminology wrong, but it is set exactly as you describe.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

That scenario is useful, but puts 4x's the force on the the crotch. What Willard mentioned, and Pete describes is very useful, and only doubles the force, as will any block.

In ASPR, they do use a bowline, but IIRC they tied it with a two-hole bowline for some reason. Maybe it holds better without the tail tied off.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

i am intrigued. i was wondering about rigging through the conduit as well. some times i want to avoid climbing up to set a block and climbing back up to retrieve and or avoiding the force multiplying effects of hauling the block up on a line and tying it off at the base of the tree. i see how crushed conduit could quickly become rope un-friendly. maybe appropriate for light rigging only, or just use a steel ring-ring dedicated to rigging. maybe ill have to do some tests on 3/4 conduit to find out how much force it takes to deform it.

Leather cambium saver. No crushing. Me Likee. For climbing, I imagine there is less friction with the conduit.

 

[Porkbrick]

does the leather burn if you run the rope?

 

[simplypete]

Here it is photographed with phone out of art and science of practical rigging. I have used it with a regular bowline. I should use the one pictured. Looks like it could take a bit more abuse.